F-35's

[Syn7]

@Drake. I think it will be another 10 or so years before we really understand what Iraq and Afghanistan are as far as reasons were and are for those wars. Right now what is told to us in Canada is that it's a fight the good fight type thing against oppression. But that is obviously hypocritical and people on one end buy it and on the other reject it out of hand and see it as corruption. Meanwhile soldiers do their job and people pay their taxes.

I think it's in between those two extremes. We aren't saviour champions and we didn't go there for them, we just use it to justify the entry. That being said, the quality of life has impoved DRAMATICALLY for many people who want a more progressive lifestyle. There is a higher percentage of women in afghan gov than there are in the US gov. That's progress, intended or otherwise. Women are going to school. Traders are getting better prices for their goods. Now that doesn't excuse raining missiles on a hood that may or may not have insurgency issues, but nobody can say that things aren't at least in some ways getting better for the people in general.


Ofcourse, IMO, I still don't think we should have gone. Like Syria, I think these things need to be earned. Syrians will respect the outcomes of their efforts. Whereas you look at Lybia, for example, they won that too easy and are starting to take their freedoms for granted already. Egypt was unique in that it was already a VERY polarized society, but already had a somewhat progressive government. Especially compared to their neighbours. It's hard to watch, but we need to let these people have their own revolutions. Any support we give should be humanitarian and maybe guidance on political and social issues. Although we seem to be starting to lose our way with the latter two. In many ways we aren't as qualified to help as we seem to think we are. Afghanistan will never be like N. America, NEVER. Trying is just retarded.

[Syn7]

On a side note, you mentioned 10 years from now what we may or may not know about Iraq and Afghanistan...we've already been in those countries for 10 years. It seems our wars used to run about 3 years. The U.S. desperately needs to change the way it approaches these endeavors.

Unrealistic goals, patchwork everywhere = FAILING!!! I know it ****es Drake off when I say this, but I view Afghanistan as a colossal failure. Sure we completed many objectives, but not the overall purpose. As soon as we all leave, the Taliban will try to re-assert control in the regions it lost and Al Qaeda types will drift back in. You simply can't approach this kind of thing with a one by one mentality. The only way to do a military solution is to arm up and group up and take the whole region. And we all know that ain't happening.

It kind of annoys me when this is classified as a humanitarian thing. Most Americans wouldn't even know what Afghanistan is if it wasn't for this war.

[Kellen Bassette]

Ofcourse, IMO, I still don't think we should have gone. Like Syria, I think these things need to be earned. Syrians will respect the outcomes of their efforts. Whereas you look at Lybia, for example, they won that too easy and are starting to take their freedoms for granted already. Egypt was unique in that it was already a VERY polarized society, but already had a somewhat progressive government. Especially compared to their neighbours. It's hard to watch, but we need to let these people have their own revolutions. Any support we give should be humanitarian and maybe guidance on political and social issues. Although we seem to be starting to lose our way with the latter two. In many ways we aren't as qualified to help as we seem to think we are. Afghanistan will never be like N. America, NEVER. Trying is just retarded.

Couldn't agree more with this. Change has to come from within. You can't overthrow a regime and establish a new one and expect legitimacy to come from it.

Your always going to be viewed as an occupying force and people got to realize these people live there...your never going to wait them out. We'll get tired of sending our guys over there before they'll get tired of popping up with new insurgencies every 6 months. Every time you have "collateral damage" from a drone attack on a village that may or may not have harbored a target, you create a new generation of enemies. That's reality. I'm 10 years old playing outside with my tin cans and my A-K, look up and my parents and neighbors are dead and I don't even know why...these bombs have been falling since before I was born...you know full well that kids going to grow up and take out whatever Western target he can...

Let people fight their own battles, some take a lot longer than others...but hey, there's signs Cuba is coming around; and we wanted to wipe them out...It was the ONLY way to avoid nuclear war. Vietnam has changed, China has changed, after the Soviet Union fell, Russia changed...I'd be willing to bet if we'd just ignore North Korea's insanity for long enough, they'd probably start getting their backwards act together, eventually.

We got to stop fighting their battles, directly or through proxies. How many times do we have to get bit before we stop arming and training rebels? How many enemies do we got to make and how much blowback will we deal with before we stop funding the dictator we like, in hopes he'll kill the dictator we don't like? How many times are we going to play both sides of the field and end up looking ridiculous?

Change has got to come from within. When the Afghan people are fed up with their own nonsense they'll fight and change it to some new brand, maybe even a touch less screwed up then before...

[Kellen Bassette]

The Humanitarian thing is a joke. We look the other way when genocide goes on in Africa. We backed Saddam and sold him arms in the '80s when he was doing all those bad things we used to justify our second invasion...frig we armed and trained Bin Laden's guys when the USSR was failing at the same thing we're failing at.

I don't think anyone buys the humanitarian thing...they're just lying to themselves.

[Syn7]

And we knew Saddam had chem weapons at one point because we had the receipts! But we also knew he disarmed. The whole nuke thing was a joke.

Totally agree, if we we're really humanitarians, there are much better places to work at. People who would actually want us there.

[Syn7]

I honestly think Raul Castro may be open to some major reforms. He's already opened the flow of goods wide open compared to what it was before. He's made a ton of economic reforms that are more inline with everyone else in that hood. I see a bright future for them. They are industrious and have decent resources still. I think they will be just fine. As long as we stay fine, that is. You know if the big boys get hurting, places like Cuba will be the first to be annexed.

We have such a different perspective from up here. And we've been smoking legal Cuban cigars since day one


I have never been to Cuba, but everyone I know that has gone said they had a great time and want to go back soon.

[Kellen Bassette]

I'm optimistic for Cuba as well, earlier this year there was news they were changing laws to allow the citizens to sell their houses and use the profit for small businesses...eerily close to smacking of free market...

[Syn7]

I'm optimistic for Cuba as well, earlier this year there was news they were changing laws to allow the citizens to sell their houses and use the profit for small businesses...eerily close to smacking of free market...

Which is scary, but we'll see. I didn't really notice or believe the changes would come until all those dismissals a few years ago. Now I KNOW he has a plan. We will see. Hopefully they don't completely sell out the revolution. Just drag it into the 21st century!!!

[Syn7]

Looks like Harper's Gov is starting to back down. Awesome. Now all we need is to see the invoice of how much this escapade has cost taxpayers now that there is a good chance it will come to nothing. So just how much does nothing cost in a Harper regime?