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Thread: stance training since you ask

  1. #1
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    stance training since you ask

    lets just ask Frost and Ironfist how much time they've spent training sei ping dai mah and what they feel has come of it for them? Oh wait, they don't train it, they are here to criticize TCMA methods alone, posture that their methods are superior and in order to meet that agenda they attempt to diminish the methods of TCMA.
    Since this was directed at me before the thread was closed ill answer, because i think its important we all know where we are all coming from and our respective experiences.

    10 years doing stance training three times a week in class under the current master of the family style i trained before moving to MMA, one day a week helping teach a class and every morning at home to war up, also did stamping, stance sets and other methonds. and a few years under my current CLF and hung gar sifu.

    Now i have also trained with 6 commonwealth powerlifting champions, 1 world record holder and competed in a few powerlifting competitions. Ive also spent a decade training out of a pro MMA gym where several strength and conditioning coaches also trained.

    So thats my experience in TCMA, strength training and training with pros, Over to everyone else , what's your strength background, who have you trained with and where have you completed?

    My current sifu has been a hung gar sifu of some 30 years standing (and who is also two generations removed from grandmaster CLC of bak mei) squats in his rugby club twice a week and teaches stances as part of the sets but doesnt overemphasize them.

    So what did i get from stance training? some leg strength mainly static in nature, some flexibility, good mental focus, but personally i get better results from powerlifting, OL lifting, dynamic and static strengthing and would rather spend class times sparring than doing stances.

    Anyone else care to chip in?

  2. #2
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    Well, I don't recall a day when I didn't do stance training, LOL !
    While it was never part of boxing or MT and I don't recall ever doing static stance training in Judo, wrestling or BJJ, It was a main stable in Kyokushin, TKD and Kung fu of course.
    In kyokushin the core was horse and sanchin, same in the other karate systems.
    In TKD it was horse stance
    In the TCMA it was 90% horse and 10% bow.
    I don't recall one day that I didn't do stance training in TCMA, sure it wasn't always static and most of it was whiel doing strikes and blocks and such, but we were in a horse stance for a good, oh...15-20 each day.
    Psalms 144:1
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    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    would rather spend class times sparring than doing stances.

    Anyone else care to chip in?
    Agree!

    - Running is better than walking.
    - Walking is better than standing.
    - Standing is better than sitting.
    - Sitting is better than laying down.
    - Laying down is better than dead.

    - To use "hip throw" to throw your opponent over your head is better than to perform hip throw solo drill.
    - To perform 250 hip throw solo drills non-stop is better than to stay in horse stance for 10 minutes.
    - To stand in horse stance is better than to sit on couch and watching TV.

    Same investment in time, different reward in combat ability.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 10-02-2012 at 12:43 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Over to everyone else , what's your strength background, who have you trained with and where have you completed?
    Well, trained in a few gyms with national level olympic and powerlifters and in some with "worlds strongest man" trainees.
    Also trained with a few high level bodybuilders.
    Got the required certification to be a certified trainers years ago.
    Been doing and studying weight training since '89.
    Have done pretty much every method of ST.
    Have read and studied more strengthen building and athletic performance books than I care to remember.



    So what did i get from stance training? some leg strength mainly static in nature, some flexibility, good mental focus, but personally i get better results from powerlifting, OL lifting, dynamic and static strengthing and would rather spend class times sparring than doing stances.
    The one thing that I liked about static stance training -holding a stance in the most demanding position possible for as long as possible, was being able to overcome the pain that goes with lactic acid build up in the muscles.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Well, trained in a few gyms with national level olympic and powerlifters and in some with "worlds strongest man" trainees.
    Also trained with a few high level bodybuilders.
    Got the required certification to be a certified trainers years ago.
    Been doing and studying weight training since '89.
    Have done pretty much every method of ST.
    Have read and studied more strengthen building and athletic performance books than I care to remember.
    .
    Nothing less than what i expect from you, your views are informed and well balanced so its only natural you have had a wide variety of sound experiences, you dont normally have to ask these questions because its easy to tell peoples experiences from how they right....but sometimes its good to ask

    overcoming that pain is a good thing, i get it these days from endless rounds of shark tank grappling (fresh man starts on the top of you over and over) and other sparring drills, but the mental strength stance work builds should not be over looked

  6. #6
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    The only time I ever knock a training exercise or routine is if I tried it and got ZERO from it.
    When I mean try it I mean for at least 8 weeks consistently.
    More if it is a "slow progress" regime like the Iron Skills.
    You gotta be open minded BUT you also have to be honest with yourself and the results you see.
    Or lack there of.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    The only time I ever knock a training exercise or routine is if I tried it and got ZERO from it.
    When I mean try it I mean for at least 8 weeks consistently.
    More if it is a "slow progress" regime like the Iron Skills.
    You gotta be open minded BUT you also have to be honest with yourself and the results you see.
    Or lack there of.
    I'll knock it when there's a clearly better way of doing whatever the exercise purports to do. As far as building strength, endurance, lactic acid clearing efficiency, mental toughness, and pain tolerance, there are vastly superior methods for doing each of these.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    I'll knock it when there's a clearly better way of doing whatever the exercise purports to do. As far as building strength, endurance, lactic acid clearing efficiency, mental toughness, and pain tolerance, there are vastly superior methods for doing each of these.
    Sure, but then you wouldn't be doing kung fu, would you?
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  9. #9
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    No matter what training that you do, it has to do with "combat". You can spend the same amount of your training time in swimming or bicycling. Since running is more direct to combat, even swimming is better for joints and bicycling is better for your knee, you should still select running over the others.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    I'll knock it when there's a clearly better way of doing whatever the exercise purports to do. As far as building strength, endurance, lactic acid clearing efficiency, mental toughness, and pain tolerance, there are vastly superior methods for doing each of these.
    What kind of modern methods are best for muscle endurance and lactic acid efficiency? Not trolling, actually curious. If there is a better method than sitting in a horse/bow stance, I'd be open to trying it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Cup View Post
    What kind of modern methods are best for muscle endurance and lactic acid efficiency? Not trolling, actually curious. If there is a better method than sitting in a horse/bow stance, I'd be open to trying it.
    May be you should look at from the angle of "what kind of training can enhance your combat skill?" If you have choices to either lift a weight bar or a throwing dummy. Which way do you prefer? Both will make you strong but to lift a "throwing dummy", you can kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

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    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 10-02-2012 at 04:25 PM.
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    More opinion -> more argument
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Sure, but then you wouldn't be doing kung fu, would you?
    Actually I would. Wing chun has some very useful things to add to my arsenal and has a very good method of progressive training for them when done properly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Cup View Post
    What kind of modern methods are best for muscle endurance and lactic acid efficiency? Not trolling, actually curious. If there is a better method than sitting in a horse/bow stance, I'd be open to trying it.
    Low weight high volume endurance training. Distance running/biking for one. A really good one is Hindu squats because you're continuously moving and using the spring of the hamstrings at the bottom like in a barbell squat. When you can do several hundred in a row your legs will have a pretty good ability to clear lactic acid.

    But really anything where you're dynamically doing something with a lower weight but higher reps will increase the efficiency of the muscle in use of oxygen and clearing lactic acid, hence more endurance. So lot of lunges, squats, etc.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    Actually I would. Wing chun has some very useful things to add to my arsenal and has a very good method of progressive training for them when done properly.




    Low weight high volume endurance training. Distance running/biking for one. A really good one is Hindu squats because you're continuously moving and using the spring of the hamstrings at the bottom like in a barbell squat. When you can do several hundred in a row your legs will have a pretty good ability to clear lactic acid.

    But really anything where you're dynamically doing something with a lower weight but higher reps will increase the efficiency of the muscle in use of oxygen and clearing lactic acid, hence more endurance. So lot of lunges, squats, etc.
    What's a Hindu squat?

  14. #14
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    A traditional Indian training exercise for wrestling, along with Hindu press-ups (like a dive-bomb push up), and other things like rope-climbing, running, flipping your body over on your head, and heavy weight swinging.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    Actually I would. Wing chun has some very useful things to add to my arsenal and has a very good method of progressive training for them when done properly.



    .
    You said "wing chun".
    Now no one will ever take you seriously, ever !
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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