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Thread: stance training since you ask

  1. #31
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    where do you guys find the time?
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    where do you guys find the time?
    If you arew referring to doing the horse stance for centuries at a time, that is one of the reasons I stopped doing static horse stance training.
    When 2 hour workouts get reduced to 60 min or less, you need to get the most bang for your buck.
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  3. #33
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    lol, no. that's not at all what I meant.
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    lol, no. that's not at all what I meant.
    Ah, the posting thing eh?
    LOL !
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  5. #35
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    or to keep arguing the same topic for years on end...take your pic.
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    or to keep arguing the same topic for years on end...take your pic.
    Consistency is the mark of great martial arts !!
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  7. #37
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    There are lots of impressionable youngsters and noobs out there.

    Gotta make sure they get the right information.

    Plus I type fast so it doesn't take that much time
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  8. #38
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    in the ancient world you cant afford a spinal injury. it makes sense that before you start lifting heavy weights, northern kung fu has u do 3 months of of horse stance and a couple more with weights before you start squatting (this is traditional protocol). its safer to strengthen the discs and ligaments first.
    Last edited by bawang; 10-06-2012 at 05:28 AM.

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    in the ancient world you cant afford a spinal injury. it makes sense that before you start lifting heavy weights, northern kung fu has u do 3 months of of horse stance and a couple more with weights before you start squatting (this is traditional protocol). its safer to strengthen the discs and ligaments first.
    Or you could just start squatting with light weights.

    Although I suppose in the ancient world they didn't have barbells with interchangeable weights, nor squat racks. You probably just used whatever you could find. I would imagine a lot of lunge type exercises with weights held at the side.

    Also, horse stance training does nothing to strengthen the back. If anything, it creates an imbalance as your legs get a little stronger and your back stays the same strength.

    Here is where brainwashed TCMA people will use their "creative" interpretation of physiology to try and say that horse stance training makes the back stronger.
    Last edited by IronFist; 10-06-2012 at 11:53 AM.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    Or you could just start squatting with light weights.
    in northern kung fu you hold stance with heavy weights, then start squatting light weights.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    Here is where brainwashed TCMA people will use their "creative" interpretation of physiology to try and say that horse stance training makes the back stronger.
    horse stance training makes the back stronger.
    Last edited by bawang; 10-06-2012 at 06:11 PM.

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  11. #41
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    Most all the argument revolving around strength training completely misses the point. You get stronger legs, sure. After a while, it becomes more about endurance than absolute strength. Well duh.

    There's a reason it's called "stance training" and not "leg training". Leg strength is a periphery benefit. The main point is to train the entire posture. It's ingraining specific postures that are critical points in the techniques of whatever art it's being trained for. Horse and bow stances are critical to most Shaolin based arts. You spend hours upon hours in those stances so that in the heat of the moment you will still nail those details. In a striking art, training a bow will help you to really lung in deep with your punches. The combination of horse and bow are the beginning and end positions of a lions share of attacks in Hung Gar. It's the natural extension of slow practice. Spending a long time in those positions makes it easier for the body to "remember" them under pressure.

    I don't do any Shaolin stance training any more. For Baji though, you don't just stand in a horse with your hands at your sides. You take one of the positions from one of your forms. A major one is ding zhou. The stance is higher than a shaolin horse, knees are slightly aimed pronated, both hands are up protecting the face and torso and the elbows are out to the sides. It's a combination block/elbow strike. It's the final position of the strike. You want to be able to "pop" that position with power from wherever you are. You don't want to have to think about it. Training the movement is good, of course. But if you really want to sharpen that technique, then find that position, hold it and really check everything. Hang out in there checking and adjusting and trying to perfect that final "pose" as long as you can handle it. It's the same principle as a golfer statically checking his stroke or a classical guitar player just really spending some serious time examining his posture and fingering. As martial artists, those static postures just happen to be a bit more painful to hold.

    People always get caught up in the strength part of stance training and miss out completely on how it works as technical training.

  12. #42
    My experience in xinyi and taiji is that standing develops power but it's not limited to the muscles of the leg. Standing is the only way that I know to develop that certain static power and in doing the forms or moves I just follow that energy by expanding and pulling it back. The standing positions are were you can access that power and after some time of training the standing power becomes part of the form or moves however at one point I stopped training standing and after a while I noticed that I couldn't maintain as much power that's why I usually train standing, standing/moving and moving because it's the most efficient way. After learning standing to a certain degree training standing with weights, squatting, ... are also important but I think they are not exactly for the same goal and at least IMO it's better to continue doing the empty hand standing postures as well.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by omarthefish View Post
    People always get caught up in the strength part of stance training and miss out completely on how it works as technical training.
    Agree! Most people just associate horse stance with strength. It has to do with balance as well.

    MA = timing + opportunity + angle + strength + balance
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    Ok. I'm sure you would've believed me if I had tales of mystic powers that I developed from horse stance training, though.
    Nah, still wouldn't believe you.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    and a few years under my current CLF and hung gar sifu.
    Hey Neal, quick question... By this statement, are you saying that you currently still stufy CLF and Hung Gar?

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