Post Flow Drills Por Favor

[YouKnowWho]

I grab his wrist and pull back with it.

The main purpose for your "entering strategy" is to put a "hook" on your opponent. after that, you can play your striking game or grappling game however you want to play.

If your opponent refuses to block your punches, that hook will be very hard to put on him. Your hand may come back empty. In order to solve this problem, your striking hand have to change into a grab.

In the LHPM system, there is a drill called "catch grasshopper". It's very similiar to XingYi Pi Chuan.

1. A right hand big circle strike will turn into a right hand small circle grab.
2. A right hand small circle grab will follow by a left hand big circle strike.
3. A left hand big circle strike will turn into a left hand small circle grab.
4. A left hand small circle grab will follow by a right hand big circle strike.
5. go back to step 1 and continue like this forever.

If you train this drill, you will develop a habit that "the hand won't come back empty". If you miss the punch, you always change your punch into a grab and pull something back. This is very different from the pure striking art boxing principle.

[YouKnowWho]

No reason why people can't assemble their own.

I threw together something recently to explain to a student.

Right grab, left punch, right forearm hook, left underhook, shoulder lock takedown.

Alternate sequence was right grab, left punch, right forearm hook, left redirect, kao da.

People can turn that into a drill.

You have to think this backward.

- What kind of throw that you want to achieve?
- What contact points does this throw require?
- How to create a chance to obtain such contact points?
- ...

I used to think kick, punch, clinch, throw, follow on strike. Now I like to add "pull" into that sequence as kick, punch, pull, clinch, throw, following on strike. With that extra pull (hook), my opponent will be harder to get away.

[Syn7]

Well, your totally right if your reffering to it being optional. I just happen to do Hung Kuen and Taiji so naturally I much preffer a stick point of some kind.

It just bugs me personally if I work hard to close then out of reflex or because of a FLINCH I end up with nothing. haha.

Gotcha. I do have a hybrid style when I actually fight. As far as TCMA I study Bak Mei. Non TCMA I do Wrestling, sub grappling and some muay thai. So, you can see why I ask.

We do a bit of Yang, so I am familiar with the style. As a grappler they are especially helpful. I love the whole walk in and run people over thing. So effortless. Flows nice. Hard to apply against resistance with intent, but I imagine it feels really good when you have a lot of skills.

[Syn7]

The main purpose for your "entering strategy" is to put a "hook" on your opponent. after that, you can play your striking game or grappling game however you want to play.

If your opponent refuses to block your punches, that hook will be very hard to put on him. Your hand may come back empty. In order to solve this problem, your striking hand have to change into a grab.

In the LHPM system, there is a drill called "catch grasshopper". It's very similiar to XingYi Pi Chuan.

1. A right hand big circle strike will turn into a right hand small circle grab.
2. A right hand small circle grab will follow by a left hand big circle strike.
3. A left hand big circle strike will turn into a left hand small circle grab.
4. A left hand small circle grab will follow by a right hand big circle strike.
5. go back to step 1 and continue like this forever.

If you train this drill, you will develop a habit that "the hand won't come back empty". If you miss the punch, you always change your punch into a grab and pull something back. This is very different from the pure striking art boxing principle.

Needed to add to that huh. lol
You're very didactic, aren't ya.
Don't take offense, I like your posts. Actually, better said, I appreciate them.


But I still laugh every time I read your website name. It's the child in me.

[YouKnowWho]

But I still laugh every time I read your website name. It's the child in me.

I tried to use johnwang.com but it was taken. Since my middle name initial is S, I put S between john and wang. I didn't do that on purpose.

[Syn7]

I tried to use johnwang.com but it was taken. Since my middle name initial is S, I put S between john and wang. I didn't do that on purpose.

I figured as much. And I knew your middle name was an S. It's the first thing you read at your site.

I don't know how or why "wang" ended up being American slang for genitalia. I just know it made me laugh when I was a kid. Still not as bad as an old girlfriend of mine, Mia Ho. Kids were mean. Too easy, she didn't stand a chance.

[-N-]

No reason why people can't assemble their own.

I threw together something recently to explain to a student.

Right grab, left punch, right forearm hook, left underhook, shoulder lock takedown.

Alternate sequence was right grab, left punch, right forearm hook, left redirect, kao da.

People can turn that into a drill.

You have to think this backward.

- What kind of throw that you want to achieve?
- What contact points does this throw require?
- How to create a chance to obtain such contact points?

Yep. Define the end result, and develop the strategy to achieve it.

In the sequence for the student, I wanted him to get in for close body contact for shoulder lock take down.

At the close range, the kao da was an option to prevent the other person fron establishing the contact points.

That made the person trying to do take down to be quick, instead of taking all day between contact and take down. If he had a gap, the kao da bounced him away and caused damage.

A lot of striker focused people are too hesistant to get in close. I wanted the person to have follow up tools. That way he can fully commit to his striking attack and use his momentum to continue into close range methods instead of slowing down when only 80% there.

I wanted him to have kao da as defense so that when under attacking pressure, he will be happy to see the attack coming in and will actually use it to his advantage.

Then it becomes a mental game of speed, relaxation, explosiveness, initiative, and guts.

I used to think kick, punch, clinch, throw, follow on strike. Now I like to add "pull" into that sequence as kick, punch, pull, clinch, throw, following on strike. With that extra pull (hook), my opponent will be harder to get away.

Nice.

If the pull is like in Mantis where you intercept his intent, then it will be explosive and destablizing with out using force against force struggling. It will be like you are trying to give him a whiplash instead of using dead strength.

If you are partnering on the training, add in the kao da at the clinch. We train explosive kao da with short force at every class. Of all our classmates, only 2 of us had this level of focus on that method. It is automatic for us.

Funny story...

My sihing is your kung fu cousin. His other teacher was Jiang Hao Quan.

JHQ had his students working on some SC drills. My sihing was smaller than his training partner.

The partner tried to switch to something different in the middle of the drill to catch my sihing.

My sihing reflexively used kao da and sent the other person flying and landing on the ground.

The partner didn't know what happened, only that he was laying on the ground in a daze.

JHQ saw what happened, and silently motioned to my sihing not to use that method, even though the other guy tried to sneak something different into the exercise to take advantage.

[YouKnowWho]

At the close range, the kao da was an option to prevent the other person fron establishing the contact points.

- Taiji "diagonal fly - shoulder below opponent's arm",
- Taiji ""wide horse ruffle mane - shoulder above opponent's arm",
- "shoulder strik on your opponent's chest - shoulder between opponent's arms".

All 3 will require differet set ups.

[Michael Dasargo]

Speaking of Taiji, I learned the 8-Step version of Pai Ain from Chang Shifu, and it feels more push handsy.

Here's a vid. that starts with the breakdown of combinations (translations would be appreciated). The flow drills starts at 2:58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HrXm...yer_detailpage

[Subitai]

Originally Posted by Subitai
I grab his wrist and pull back with it.

The main purpose for your "entering strategy" is to put a "hook" on your opponent. after that, you can play your striking game or grappling game however you want to play.

If your opponent refuses to block your punches, that hook will be very hard to put on him. Your hand may come back empty. In order to solve this problem, your striking hand have to change into a grab.

...SNIP

I'm not sure if you're just speaking in general terms or to about what I wrote? But just for clarity, you did quote me as I wrote the words " I GRAB...".

So I just wanted to say I never said anything about using a "Hook" . Yes that is possible, but getting back to grabbing. It's not just for arms, it could be anything: His arm, wrist, shirt lapel, collar, hair...Heck his ear or bottom lip for all I care.

As for my entering stragety...well, I have a different take on it. Because i've done MMA and TMA I believe allot of traditionally trained guys are confused or don't understand how to use what they've learned in a modern setting and then they just fall back on Kick Boxing or relying on a younger mans game... i.e. more speed, more strength and more conditioning. All good but not for when you get older. As you get older and wiser, you understand that fighting is just like beats of time, there are "pauses" and there are "rushes" and then you learn to be patient and listen before you issue energy. That is the only way a older weaker person wins out.

Examples:
-Regardles of styles, certain methods are slower developing, to try them VS a boxers jab is crazy. If you understand your methods and enter correctly for what he gives you 1ST, THEN you can use that slower bridge.

- You can only do certain things when your opponent gives them to you. But if your opponent is unwiling to play your way, some people become lost. Again, you can enter to manufacture this opportunity or you can enter to control and listen...wait and then make him pay.


I might share some of these soon. But I concentrate on setting up forwhat my students see most often in the street. Namely a boxer of some sort.

Nobody will say.. "lets fight" and then take a traditional stance. haha

[YouKnowWho]

I never said anything about using a "Hook" . Yes that is possible, but getting back to grabbing. [U]It's not just for arms, it could be anything: His arm, wrist, shirt lapel, collar, hair...Heck his ear or bottom lip for all I care.

The "hook" that I'm talking about is not a boxing hook punch but a fishing hook on your opponent's body so he won't be able to get away. Even he moves back, he will still pull you with him.

The "hook" is the opposite of the "glue" that Taiji guys and WC guys like to use in their push hand and Chi Shou. No matter how strong a "glue" may be, it won't be as strong as a "hook".

I don't understand why Taiji guys and WC guys don't like to grab (apply hook principle). Even a mantis guy likes to use grab to pull his opponent into his punch to cause a "head on collision". Can anybody offer your possible explanation here?

[Michael Dasargo]

From a Mantis Boxers perspective:

We use thumb grips to control rotation and assert plucks/chin na.

We also exploit thumb grips with "Silk Entwining Hand".

In taiji, when you are grabbed, you can use the opponents grip to manipulate their center. Thumb grips are kind of an "all in" grip that leave both the thumb and wrist vulnerable to chin na and balance vulnerable to manipulation.

The solution for a thumb grip is a soft, passive grip Gou Shou. The hook hand is a thumbless grip that allows mobility of the grabbing arm while minimizing the chance of getting stuck/trapped/manipulated by the opponent.

Mike D.

[Syn7]

The "hook" that I'm talking about is not a boxing hook punch but a fishing hook on your opponent's body so he won't be able to get away. Even he moves back, he will still pull you with him.

The "hook" is the opposite of the "glue" that Taiji guys and WC guys like to use in their push hand and Chi Shou. No matter how strong a "glue" may be, it won't be as strong as a "hook".

I don't understand why Taiji guys and WC guys don't like to grab (apply hook principle). Even a mantis guy likes to use grab to pull his opponent into his punch to cause a "head on collision". Can anybody offer your possible explanation here?

I like reading your posts, but I find I am often slowed down by terminology I am not familiar with. So many names for so many movements.

[YouKnowWho]

I find I am often slowed down by terminology I am not familiar with. So many names for so many movements.

May be I should define the term before using it.

[Syn7]

May be I should define the term before using it.

Usually a quick google search helps me figure it out. I know most of the moves, just not the names. So when I see it, or have it described, then it clicks and I know what we're talking about. That's on me, not you. But if you wanna be more descriptive, that is awesome and appreciated. Thanx.