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Thread: Cantonese kinship terms

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  1. #1
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    Cantonese kinship terms

    Can anyone post all the kinship terms for kung fu schools or clans like "hing dai", "si hing", "si mu", etc.?
    I was on the metro earlier, deep in meditation, when a ruffian came over and started causing trouble. He started pushing me with his bag, steadily increasing the force until it became very annoying. When I turned to him, before I could ask him to stop, he immediately started hurling abuse like a scoundrel. I performed a basic chin na - carotid artery strike combination and sent him to sleep. The rest of my journey was very peaceful, and passersby hailed me as a hero - Warrior Man

  2. #2
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    Sigung = Grandmaster/teacher's teacher
    Sifu = Master/teacher
    Sibaak = Senior Uncle
    Siguma = Senior Aunt
    Sisuk = Junior Uncle
    Siguje = Junior Aunt
    Sihing = Senior Brother
    Sijeh = Senior Sister
    Simui = Junior Sister
    Sidai = Junior Brother
    Toudai = Student/indoor student
    Tousyunneui = Female Grandstudent
    Tousyun = Male Grandstudent

    These are the ones I know of, plus the two at the bottom are from a reference I found on the web.
    -Golden Arms-

  3. #3
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    specific to Faruq's request

    Hing dai - the hing is the same hing in sihing (兄) which means elder brother. The dai means 'big' (大), which adds more respect to the term. Sometimes you might hear it as dai sihing. The meaning is more or less the same.

    Simu - the mu, usually pronounced mou in Cantonese (母), means mother. This is the term you use to address the wife of your Sifu. However, a female Sifu is still addresses as Sifu, not Simou. Her husband is also addresses as Sifu. I think that's a Confucian thing.
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  4. #4
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    Gene-I was taught that Hing as in older, Dai-as in younger (Si-dai) Different character for dai. therefore Hing-dai is fellow training brothers,
    Ji-Mui fellow training sisters.

    So are there two different Hing-Dai?
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
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  5. #5
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    Hmm, you may be right, TT

    I've always assumed it was a derivation of Dai Sihing, but I don't speak Cantonese. I stand corrected.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    Gene-I was taught that Hing as in older, Dai-as in younger (Si-dai) Different character for dai. therefore Hing-dai is fellow training brothers,
    Ji-Mui fellow training sisters.
    this was always my understanding as well;

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Hing dai - the hing is the same hing in sihing (兄) which means elder brother. The dai means 'big' (大), which adds more respect to the term. Sometimes you might hear it as dai sihing. The meaning is more or less the same.

    Simu - the mu, usually pronounced mou in Cantonese (母), means mother. This is the term you use to address the wife of your Sifu. However, a female Sifu is still addresses as Sifu, not Simou. Her husband is also addresses as Sifu. I think that's a Confucian thing.
    Gene:

    I also heard that Simo was used for the wife of a Sifu (that did not practice kung fu) and that Simu was for a a wife of the Sifu that had a Black Belt (or comprable rank), but was not the Sifu. Clarify if you could.

    ginosifu

  8. #8
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    I don't know about that, Gino

    The character 母 is mu in Mandarin and mou in Cantonese. Some say the character is symbolic of breasts, which is easy enough to visualize. Muqin (母親) is the formal term for mother. I'd have to see the character for this Simo. Note that I'm not a native speaker and don't really have any grasp of Cantonese beyond studying under a Hong Kong master (as you know Gino) for a few decades.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Hing dai - the hing is the same hing in sihing (兄) which means elder brother. The dai means 'big' (大), which adds more respect to the term. Sometimes you might hear it as dai sihing. The meaning is more or less the same.

    Simu - the mu, usually pronounced mou in Cantonese (母), means mother. This is the term you use to address the wife of your Sifu. However, a female Sifu is still addresses as Sifu, not Simou. Her husband is also addresses as Sifu. I think that's a Confucian thing.
    Kinda sexist huh. A female must earn Sifu but her husband gets a free title? Cause he's her master? Sup?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    Kinda sexist huh. A female must earn Sifu but her husband gets a free title? Cause he's her master? Sup?
    Not 'sexist,' 'Confucian.'

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ShaolinDan View Post
    Not 'sexist,' 'Confucian.'
    Is that like "He didn't beat his wife, he was teaching her a lesson"?

  12. #12
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    It's not really sexist

    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    Kinda sexist huh. A female must earn Sifu but her husband gets a free title? Cause he's her master? Sup?
    The issue is that there are two different characters used for fu in shifu and they are phonetically identical: 師傅 and 師父. Fu #1 (傅) literally means teacher and is a little redundant to shi (師), which also means teacher but has a connotation of master as well. Fu #2 (父) means father. So fuqin (父親) means father and muqin (母親) means mother and fumu (父母) means parents.
    Gene Ching
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  13. #13
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    In Shandong, we use Shi Mu, Ive never heard Shi Niang. We also use Shi Ye over Shi Gong, but it only refers to your own teachers teacher. For masters other than my own, Ive been told to call them Laoshi, regardless of age, rank or ability in comparison to my own teacher.

    For kung fu uncle, we use both Shi Bo and Shi Shu, I dont think theres a difference. When I met my own Shifu's kung fu uncle, I was told to also call him Laoshi, as theres no word for "kung fu great uncle".

    Also, I know in the south of China and Taiwan, xiaojie is still a respectable term, often used in daily life.

    I know none of this is Cantonese,

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    The issue is that there are two different characters used for fu in shifu and they are phonetically identical: 師傅 and 師父. Fu #1 (傅) literally means teacher and is a little redundant to shi (師), which also means teacher but has a connotation of master as well. Fu #2 (父) means father. So fuqin (父親) means father and muqin (母親) means mother and fumu (父母) means parents.
    LOL, doncha just hate that!!!

    How do you type in Chinese with a US standard keyboard? WTF does a Chinese typewriter look like?

    You know how kids are taught to spell by "sounding out" the word? Can you do that in Chinese at all? Do phonetics have characters? Or specific strokes? I've always wanted to learn, but I have so many pursuits that I have to be realistic in my endeavors. I can learn everything, as much as I would like to. But speaking Chinese seems to be an important one. I can speak English and French fluently and have a working knowledge of Spanish and Portuguese. A Lil Italian. I don't have any formal training in Latin, but I have so many pursuits that involve Latin terminology that I have managed to pick up quite a bit.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Arms View Post
    Sigung = Grandmaster/teacher's teacher
    Sifu = Master/teacher
    Sibaak = Senior Uncle
    Siguma = Senior Aunt
    Sisuk = Junior Uncle
    Siguje = Junior Aunt
    Sihing = Senior Brother
    Sijeh = Senior Sister
    Simui = Junior Sister
    Sidai = Junior Brother
    Toudai = Student/indoor student
    Tousyunneui = Female Grandstudent
    Tousyun = Male Grandstudent

    These are the ones I know of, plus the two at the bottom are from a reference I found on the web.
    What about just brother? Like an equal student? Not senior or junior. Is that Toudai?

    Edit: I see you said Hing Dai. That is equal brother under the same sifu?
    Last edited by Syn7; 10-05-2012 at 06:16 PM.

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