Longfist guys

[MasterKiller]

Snappy Power =
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7D8EUz_b9Y

Not Snappy Power=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAW1jAIh6VM

[mickey]

Wait a minute. Foul! Foul!

We are talking about Long fist aren't we?

The link on snappy power was not snappy at all.

The second on is more in line with what i am talking about. Is it a good punching power? Yes. Can a practitioner get there by doing his practice in a graceful, flowing, way? NO!!!

Form practice, when done correctly, successfully integrates your auxiliary training. What you put into your practice is supposed to show there. Even the results of your chi practice can show there. Even your knowledge of real time fighting should show there. There is nothing wrong with playing your form in real time with speed and power. I have seen people play their forms with such aggression that I can hear their punches and kicks. By the way, they were wearing T shirts and shorts.

I see that this debate can continue to go on indefinitely. So let's agree to disagree. I am totally cool with your stance on this matter. It is not the first time I have encountered it.

It is interesting that JamesC disappeared on this. I guess he is working on Avatar 2.

We need eternal, heavenly, wisdom here. Where is CYMAC?

Peace to you both,

mickey

[YouKnowWho]

Let's look at how the 1st longfist generations did in Taiwan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkWY4...feature=relmfu

The 2nd longfist generations in Taiwan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPcXE6pCgY4

The 3rd longfist generation in Taiwan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7_syGd3S0o

The 4th longfist generation in Taiwan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f48lAjfJLek

The Shao Fu Yen form is 1/2 longfist and 1/2 praying mantis. It can be done by either the longfist way or the praying mantis way. If the 4th generation treats this form as a pure praying mantis form, link the end of the previous move to the beginning of the next move, their moves will have the snappiness effect as showing in the clip. IMO, the praying mantis snappiness should be a fast punch out and fast pull back. It should not be like Baji or white crane type of Fajin snappiness.

We can see the snappiness in Su Yu Cheng's praying mantis form. When you emphasize on "speed", you have to add fast punch with fast pull back snappiness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKFMS4bjRk0

[mickey]

Hello YouKnowWho,

If you looked at the first post by JamesC he was talking about the lack of power generation displayed by Yang Jwing Ming's students. And when requested by bawang and myself to show footage, neglected to do so.

I am very aware that the energy expressed byYang Jwing Ming's Shaolin Long Fist differs from other lineages. I don't see it as a bad thing. If thee is any concern it is that the students' chi is strong enough to handle the energy expressed.

What are you bringing to the discussion with those links?


mickey

[YouKnowWho]

Those links just prove that by using the "pure" longfist approach, those snappiness should not be there.

- Longfist is like rifle.
- Praying mantis is like machine gun.
- Baji is like grenade.

They all have different flavor. Just because the longfist Fajin and speed are not noticeable compare to other systems, many longfist guys had cross trained praying mantis for speed, and Baji for Fajin.

Should we mix longfist, pray mantis, and Baji flavor together? To me it has no true meaning in combat or work on heavy bag.

[mickey]

Greetings,

The form linked by MasterKiller is influenced by the mantis style. Should it not have the mantis flavor? I do remember you writing that you like to perform you Long Fist forms with a baji flavor. What has changed since then?

I also remember you being supportive of Master Yang's innovations. What has happened since then?

If something advances the art and the abilities of its practitioners, where is the wrong? This is a component of how styles develop in the first place.

When I look at Master Yang's students, the rifle is there.


mickey

[SPJ]

long fist is huge family.

long fist could be defined as continuous fist like water or river running long.

long fist could also be defined as big opening and big closing. arms fully stretched.

Most evidently would be tong bei or pi gua.

in contrast, praying mantis has both long and short power and even hidden power.

short arm and leg movements

in contrast, ba ji is about body contact or kao.

springiness or bouncy are evident in all styles long or short.

We practice relaxation drills in all joints in Tong bei and pi gua.

so that we may produce springiness or bouncy from feet up all the way to the hand.

Muddle the discussions a bit.

[YouKnowWho]

I'm just pointing out the possible reason why those 2 clips (same forms) had different flavors. There is no right or wrong there. Evolution is always a good thing.

I don't train form any more. When I work on my striking dummy or heavy bag, those flavor has little meaning one way or another.

[mickey]

YouKnowWho,

I was not knocking your performance.

mickey

[YouKnowWho]

I was not knocking your performance.

Don't worry. I know you are not.

I did that form in 1978 San Francisco Kung Fu Exhibition.

http://imageshack.us/a/img847/6121/kungfudemo.jpg

Since Brendan Lai looked at that form from the praying mantis point of view, he said I was not fast enough. Since then I had added more praying mantis flavor into it. Later on I also added some Baji flavor into it until oneday I totally gave up my form training.

[bawang]

We can see the snappiness in Su Yu Cheng's praying mantis form. When you emphasize on "speed", you have to add fast punch with fast pull back snappiness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKFMS4bjRk0

snappy punches is extremely unrealistic. first you hold back your power to make the snappy effect. the force is not transfered to a target, its back up your arms.

secondly you leave your arms out extended to make that shaky effect so you cant pull back your arms to a guard.

the snappy effect is for looking good and performance. thats why its so common in modern wushu, and you always wear pajamas so the sleeves will vibrate.


snappy punches can also be caused by lack of punching real objects and lack of sparring. when i dont punch bags for a long time, my punch gets snappy. i punch bags to correct it.







example of explosiveness without snappiness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kJ8unUIlgM

this style is related to bak sil lum

[YouKnowWho]

snappy punches is extremely unrealistic.

You can use a slap at your opponent's eyes to set up a lot of your favor "finish moves".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3i_nkGyOmo

Both "groin kick" and "eyes slap" don't need much force but speed. As long as your opponent will respond to it (99% of the time, your opponent will), that's all you need.

[JamesC]

Lol wow. Guess I'm not allowed to sleep...

Mickey, I didn't fail to post clips. I was at work until 8 this morning. I just woke up god's sake. I'll try tk get to a real computer today and watch the vids

[bawang]

You can use a slap at your opponent's eyes to set up a lot of your favor "finish moves".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3i_nkGyOmo

Both "groin kick" and "eyes slap" don't need much force but speed. As long as your opponent will respond to it (99% of the time, your opponent will), that's all you need.

we are not wing chun h0m0sexuals. we dont need this.

long fist is the epitomy of manliness and trength.

[YouKnowWho]

we are not wing chun h0m0sexuals. we dont need this.

long fist is the epitomy of manliness and trength.

The faster that you slap at your opponent's eyes, the faster that your opponent will try to block it. The faster that you pull your hand back, the faster that you can strike back with the real powerful punch again.

Why do you want to use 2 steps punches? The reason is simple. 99% of the time, your 1st punch will fail. Why do you want to commit your 1st punch if you know it will fail anyway?

When you use your hand to touch your girl's boob, 99% of the time she will push your hand away. If you move your hand to her groin area, when she move her hand to stop your groin touching hand, her boobs will be exposed to your 2nd hand attack. All my life, I had applied this strategy on my girls. It never failed me.