Is the knowledge of many forms important for you?

[Orion Paximus]

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that it's something to be revered, but something that should be paramount! It's about preserving the history of something that you (the general you i guess) find important. All martial artists, in a sense, are keepers of a historical treasure. I don't know, that just seems important to me for some reason.

[Jimbo]

I read an article by Adam Hsu that, if I remember right, said that there were originally 10 hand sets in the Cha Chuan system, but that most of the Cha Chuan masters only have about half of the sets. Apparently, this didn't stop them from having a comprehensive understanding and ability in their art.

[YouKnowWho]

I wish more teachers thought of CMA as a gift to pass on than a trophy to display.

I don't teach form any more. The reason is simple. My longfist brother Yang Jwing-Ming is doing that. I don't feel any responsibility to pass down the art of SC either. My SC brother David C. K. Lin is doing that. After my students have learned my favor moves, I'll tell them that they can leave any time they want to and find themselves other teachers. If my teacher's best moves are what I want to develop, that's all I care about. I prefer to be able to take care 7 opponents by just one move than to be able to use 7 moves just to take care one opponent.

[YouKnowWho]

I read an article by Adam Hsu that, if I remember right, said that there were originally 10 sets in the Cha Chuan system, but that most of the Cha Chuan masters only have about half of the sets.

You are right. My longfist brother Nelson Zhou in NYC had learned Cha Chuan 1, 2, 3, and 4. I had only learned Cha Chuan 4. There are book for Cha Chuan 5. I have not heard or seen Cha Chuan 6, 7, ... yet.

[RenDaHai]

Passing on a MA was never something done "just because it has to be passed on", many teacher were quite happy to die and take their MA with them.
There is no reason to think that passing on a MA is a "great accomplishment".

During the cultural revolution it was a fairly great accomplishment to pass something on. I'm glad for it. There are so many aspects to KungFu that there is no way of Me telling how much a style of KungFu can affect someone else's life, and in what ways. It may mean a lot more to someone of the future then to me now.

If all people passed on all their skills all throughout history we we be far more advanced today in all aspects. I think anyone can be a teacher if they have something that someone else wants to learn, no matter what it is.

[RenDaHai]

GongFu in China is HIGH CULTURE. In the west high culture is Classical Music, Fine Art, Ballet, Poetry, Theatre, Ethics, Philosophy, Literature, Architecture Etc. When you look at these things they have little practical application to the life of the average peasant. Its true, but it is because of these things that our civilisations are as fantastic as they are. High Culture inspires all levels of society.

If you don't understand the importance of High Culture to society, then I can't help you, but I am sure their are many essays you can find.

Gong Fu in China is High Culture. It is not simply a bag of dirty tricks to be pulled out during combat. It is penetrates all aspects of a mans life and makes them BETTER.

Form is the ballet, the poetry, the music, the fine art. It is these things as well as a Martial Art and a philosophy. It is important to appreciate it, to attempt it, to learn it and to pass it on.

Ask a singer how many songs they can sing? I can play any form if you give me the lyrics.

Does a musician only learn to play one tune? If you are good you should be able to play any set of movements because you are a master of the instrument that is your body. So I say, practice many forms, and revel in the moment.

[GeneChing]

That was all the 26 forms listed here plus a few more for good measure. I don't have them all now because that's a lot of forms to maintain, way more than I needed as I don't teach any more. But I'm very proud to have accomplished that. What's more, BSL is an amazing system when you get that many forms. It opens up this whole new door. The BSL 10 hand forms function as an amazing training system. Sure, it's laborious, and it would be much more efficient to train basic strikes. But ask anyone who's completed the BSL 10. We'll all tell you what a magnificent composition it is when you get the whole thing.

[Jimbo]

GongFu in China is HIGH CULTURE. In the west high culture is Classical Music, Fine Art, Ballet, Poetry, Theatre, Ethics, Philosophy, Literature, Architecture Etc. When you look at these things they have little practical application to the life of the average peasant. Its true, but it is because of these things that our civilisations are as fantastic as they are. High Culture inspires all levels of society.

If you don't understand the importance of High Culture to society, then I can't help you, but I am sure their are many essays you can find.

Gong Fu in China is High Culture. It is not simply a bag of dirty tricks to be pulled out during combat. It is penetrates all aspects of a mans life and makes them BETTER.

Form is the ballet, the poetry, the music, the fine art. It is these things as well as a Martial Art and a philosophy. It is important to appreciate it, to attempt it, to learn it and to pass it on.

Ask a singer how many songs they can sing? I can play any form if you give me the lyrics.

Does a musician only learn to play one tune? If you are good you should be able to play any set of movements because you are a master of the instrument that is your body. So I say, practice many forms, and revel in the moment.

Actually, IME, many of the people who seem to display the least interest in kung fu are Chinese.

Everyone is different. I have learned MANY forms, in CLF, and before that, Tanglang quan and also, Chang Chuan. Also some Lung Ying sets. These aren't even counting the weapon sets, and all the other important material that goes into learning a kung fu system. I had no problem doing the sets in each art with the flavor of that art; meaning, I practiced TLQ with TLQ body and CLF with CLF flavor, even allowing for differences in the stances, footwork, etc, etc. I finally settled only on CLF.

At some point, too much is too much. Trying to practice/maintain too many sets or styles is like going further into debt; you're never caught up. Then it can be more difficult to be 'in the moment' during practice because you're just trying to maintain rather than improve, which becomes difficult anyway, with so much quantity. Practicing sets/ forms is only a part of kung fu practice, not the only or main focus.

But then, everyone's purpose for training is different. I'm only saying what I eventually arrived at; quality of practice time over quantity of material. Of course, enough material makes practice much richer, but there is a point of diminishing returns.

Plus...not everyone who trains MA has a life centered only on practicing and teaching kung fu. Kung fu was the center of my life for years, but now it's not. I must make my practice time count. Kung fu must share my time now with other responsibilities and other interests, too.

[r.(shaolin)]

Thoughtful insight RenDaHai.
r.

GongFu in China is HIGH CULTURE. In the west high culture is Classical Music, Fine Art, Ballet, Poetry, Theatre, Ethics, Philosophy, Literature, Architecture Etc. When you look at these things they have little practical application to the life of the average peasant. Its true, but it is because of these things that our civilisations are as fantastic as they are. High Culture inspires all levels of society.

If you don't understand the importance of High Culture to society, then I can't help you, but I am sure their are many essays you can find.

Gong Fu in China is High Culture. It is not simply a bag of dirty tricks to be pulled out during combat. It is penetrates all aspects of a mans life and makes them BETTER.

Form is the ballet, the poetry, the music, the fine art. It is these things as well as a Martial Art and a philosophy. It is important to appreciate it, to attempt it, to learn it and to pass it on.

Ask a singer how many songs they can sing? I can play any form if you give me the lyrics.

Does a musician only learn to play one tune? If you are good you should be able to play any set of movements because you are a master of the instrument that is your body. So I say, practice many forms, and revel in the moment.