The TCMA is more than just fighting

[David Jamieson]

Are you saying there is not more to TCMA than fighting? I'm sure there are plenty of Kung Fu styles that don't really teach anything more than fighting but traditional Shaolin is far more than just fighting. Of course I can get good exercise outside of TCMA but I doubt better. Sure Yoga is good but it will never put you in shape like Kung Fu. Swimming is great too but will never get you into Kung Fu shape. Real Kung Fu will train the body, mind and spirit to a degree that nothing else can. My question to you is... If you only want fighting why do you train Kung Fu? Fighting is pretty simple.

While I am a stalwart practitioner of traditional Kung fu, I don't actually agree with your assessment.
It is certainly not an accurate reflection of all the people I know who practice Kung Fu. They are all different shapes and sizes and different levels of fitness. Some of the less fit ones can fight like hell and some of the real fit ones can't fight worth beans and so on and so forth.

Also, persistent practice of Yoga or swimming or any other regimen is an equally valid and useful way to get in shape and can in fact be incorporated into one's overall kung fu.

Kung Fu is more than fighting, but I wouldn't say it's above all other forms of working out or that it is a superior work out to be had in TCMA. that simply isn't true and I've been practicing for literally decades. Still trying to get my own Kung Fu at a level I deem acceptable. So far...well, getting there. :-)

PS (I don't actually expect to ever know all there is about kung fu and fully anticipate my death before I do. :-) )

[Bacon]

Are you saying there is not more to TCMA than fighting?

I'm saying that anything it teaches is in the service of learning how to fight. Fitness is an aid to the primary goal of combat.

Of course I can get good exercise outside of TCMA but I doubt better.

Hmm I'd wager that most strongmen, gymnasts, boxers, wrestlers, and amateur athletes are in better shape than 90% of the Kung fu folks out there including you and me.

Sure Yoga is good but it will never put you in shape like Kung Fu.

When done with progressive levels of resistance it will.

Swimming is great too but will never get you into Kung Fu shape.

Have you ever seen Olympic swimmers? Clearly not.

Real Kung Fu will train the body, mind and spirit to a degree that nothing else can.

Presupposing the existence of a spirit and that most, if any, Kung fu teachers have an in depth knowledge of psychology and behaviour modification (they don't).

My question to you is... If you only want fighting why do you train Kung Fu?

Because it is a combative method.

Fighting is pretty simple.

Then I take it you've won every fighting championship there is since fighting is so simple eh? Care to post up pictures of you after winning the Mundials, abu dhabi, and your time with the ufc, strikeforce, and pride belt then? Bollocks. The rest of your post proclaims your ignorance on the subject of fitness and this proclaims the highest level of ignorance possible on the subject of combat.

[bawang]

traditional Shaolin is far more than just fighting.

traditinal shaolin is only about fighting.


if real traditional shaolin survived today we would have shaolin monks with assault rifles and navy seal training.

[Syn7]

Bawang took the words right out of my mouth.

[YouKnowWho]

If you only want fighting why do you train Kung Fu? Fighting is pretty simple.

You must be a striker, a punch to the face is very simple but TCMA is much more than just that. The complicate part of the TCMA is the integration of kick, punch, lock, throw, follow on strikes. When you start a technique on a paper, by looking at defense and counters you may get into more than 40 different moves involved on the same paper. A single move can be just the root, it can grow into a big tree. "Simple" is definitely not the proper term to be used in TCMA.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Fighting IS very simple John, everyone can do it.
Now, fighting WELL, that is a different story my friend, as we know.
I've realized that those that downplay the significance of fighting in MA tend to be the ones that have never fought anyone of decent caliber.

I recall the first time I fought someone that shut down everything I threw at him, it was a lesson in MARTIAL arts that I have never forgotten and did more for me as a MA then pretty much any other single event.

[Jimbo]

The first CMA teacher I ever had in Taiwan, pretty much completely de-emphasized the fighting aspect. I spent a period of time in his school because at the time I didn't know any better, and thought 'the good stuff' would eventually be taught...this after years of fight-oriented karate, as well as judo experience. When I left him and found a teacher who did emphasize the fighting aspect, the difference was immense. I progressed faster in the first three months with him than I did in three years with the other teacher. And I actually began to understand, through experience, what I was doing. Years later, after I returned Stateside and joined a combat-oriented CLF school, I was able to adapt easily because of the experience of my second northern-style teacher. There is a WORLD of difference between KF schools that emphasize and don't emphasize the combative aspect.

To add another twist, even my forms improved tremendously when in the schools that emphasized combat. Yes, combative focus even aids in that aspect of it.

Now I train because I love it, but I feel I've earned that. IMO, you must go through years of training emphasizing the application of your art in sparring against all types, drilling, etc. Otherwise, all the philosophy, mottos, 'way of life', etc., really don't mean a whole lot.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Now I train because I love it, but I feel I've earned that. IMO, you must go through years of training emphasizing the application of your art in sparring against all types, drilling, etc. Otherwise, all the philosophy, mottos, 'way of life', etc., really don't mean a whole lot.

Jimbo has ***** slapped the correct, kicked it in the prostate AND anally punished it into submission.

[IronWeasel]

Jimbo has ***** slapped the correct, kicked it in the prostate AND anally punished it into submission.

I had to clench up when I read this....

But I agree with it.

[4 Dragons]

I'm saying that anything it teaches is in the service of learning how to fight. Fitness is an aid to the primary goal of combat.


Hmm I'd wager that most strongmen, gymnasts, boxers, wrestlers, and amateur athletes are in better shape than 90% of the Kung fu folks out there including you and me.


When done with progressive levels of resistance it will.


Have you ever seen Olympic swimmers? Clearly not.


Presupposing the existence of a spirit and that most, if any, Kung fu teachers have an in depth knowledge of psychology and behaviour modification (they don't).


Because it is a combative method.



Then I take it you've won every fighting championship there is since fighting is so simple eh? Care to post up pictures of you after winning the Mundials, abu dhabi, and your time with the ufc, strikeforce, and pride belt then? Bollocks. The rest of your post proclaims your ignorance on the subject of fitness and this proclaims the highest level of ignorance possible on the subject of combat.

I have never fought in the ring and was does that have to do with real fighting? I have been in plenty of real fights and I have always won. The fact that I am still alive proves that I can fight as good as I need to. How many of you have had a gun on your forehead or got jumped by 25 people with the intent of killing you? I'm going to guess zero. Plus my having been in max security and doing anti submarine warfare while in the Navy and having practiced Kung Fu since 1966 gives me a different perspective than you.There is a huge difference between ring rules and the street.I doubt a Kung Fu master will ever attack me. Maybe I should have said fighting was easy for me and obviously not for you.

Shaolin started as a health practice to augment their mediation, fighting came out of that.

Swimmers are in great shape but what can they do with it? Can they use their strength from any position? Same for yoga. The answer is no.

I don't need to have a degree in psychology to understand my spirit or how to train it with Kung Fu. If you do not it is because you don't practice enough to know any better.

I didn't attack you yet you feel the need to attack me. You got too much fat bacon.

I would like to say that I do not think it is the best idea to practice Kung Fu only as a health practice and that you will never get the full health benefits unless you practice in a martial manner. I still say there is plenty more to Kung Fu than just a martial art.

One last thing and then say what you want I'm not listening, LOL!

"Hmm I'd wager that most strongmen, gymnasts, boxers, wrestlers, and amateur athletes are in better shape than 90% of the Kung fu folks out there including you and me."

No doubt. What about the other 10%? Before my 11 surgeries and heart attack I would have taken that bet.

[YouKnowWho]

Fighting IS very simple John, everyone can do it.
Now, fighting WELL, that is a different story my friend, as we know.

If you want to win by points that you hit your opponent 100 times while your opponent only hit you 99 time, that doesn't take much training at all.

If you can take your opponent down within 3 second while your opponent hasn't even laid a finger on you, that will require many years of hard training.

[Raipizo]

If you can take your opponent down within 3 second while your opponent has even laid a finger on you, that will require many years of hard training.

Exactly there are different ways of training for different types of fighting, point sparring, grappling, mma, street fighting or practical fighting. It all depends what you like to do.

[-N-]

If you can take your opponent down within 3 second while your opponent has even laid a finger on you, that will require many years of hard training.

That is a good way to train.

I have had my students work on that quite a bit in an exercise that I called "3 second death match". It's more like 1.5 seconds though, because I count it off pretty quickly.

Btw, one of my students went on to Air Force Academy. I heard back from him that kung fu training was harder than basic training.

[-N-]

That is a good way to train.

I have had my students work on that quite a bit in an exercise that I called "3 second death match". It's more like 1.5 seconds though, because I count it off pretty quickly.

Btw, one of my students went on to Air Force Academy. I heard back from him that kung fu training was harder than basic training.

Kung fu helped him with spirit, attitude, focus, tenaciousness, committment, discipline etc.

One of his early experiences in basic... being the smallest cadet, he was partnered with the biggest cadet for their pugil stick training. First match of the day, he went right in and took out his opponent, to everyone's surprise.

[YouKnowWho]

That is a good way to train.

I have had my students work on that quite a bit in an exercise that I called "3 second death match". It's more like 1.5 seconds though, because I count it off pretty quickly.

Btw, one of my students went on to Air Force Academy. I heard back from him that kung fu training was harder than basic training.

It needs a lot of skills to achieve this.

1. Fast and excellent set up.
2. Lighting speed footwork.
3. Solid throwing skill.
4. ...

You just have to train in "lighting" speed in order to reach to this kind of level. When I suggested this "Train in lighting speed" method in another forum, my suggestion had upset many "slow speed training" internal guys. To me, if you want to train "comat", you have to train in "lighting" speed. What's lighting speed? You feel that your eyeballs are going to fly out of your eye sockets.