Center Line Capture

[JPinAZ]

The feet should always follow the hands and not the other way around and that's even when kicking, unless the practitioner chooses to stay away and not make bridge contact; while running away and while trying to hit and block well after the fact.

You can’t counter -or- attack without moving the hands first (kicking or striking). Don’t take my word on it, try it yourself; when sparring take your step first and then throw your punch second, and I’m sure you'll get timed out (countered) very easily, ever time.

I realize this wasn't directed to me, but only thing I would dissagree with here is saying the feet should always follow the hands. Why paint yourself into a corner with absolutes like 'always'?
There are many instances when the feet will tell the hands where to go, but I'd agree that since most attacks are in the upper gates, the hands usually are engaging first and giving the feet direction (feet follow hands). But this isn't the case in all situations and it does work both ways.

[Ali. R]

If you step first, you would never have complete balance of power or a good center of gravity, jamming up your own attempt of attack, the feet moves first usually in defense and that’s without moving the hands at all.

Just get out of your set and start to walk around and you will see that the hands will move first and that’s just a natural reaction of the human body; no matter how hard you try not to make the hands move first, they will anyway; that’s only if you move naturally.

The key to all of this is to be natural, just as stepping into a jab; the jab is first because it’s what you’ll be stepping into, don’t jab into the step, but step into the jab.

Try stepping first (when walking) and then swing your hands afterwards, it would be one of the most awkward things you do all day.

[Ali. R]

All I’m saying is this, be and stay natural, try this at home (walking); take a big step first and then make a big swing of the hands, then take a big swing of the hands first and a big step behind that, and all will come into light.

If those feet do not follow the hands, then you would only be fighting against yourself.

[JPinAZ]

feet follows hand, hands follow feet is more of a bridging concept and how one maintains structural alignment, personal space, advantageous positioning, facing, pursuit, etc in reaction to the energy on the bridge. Which follows which is primarily dictated by what limb the energy is being reacted on.
Walking around and swinging your arms really has no bearing in that discussion. Walking is a controlled fwd fall, has nothing to do with swinging the arms first or last. Try crossing your arms and walking..

[Lee Chiang Po]

You all are making too much of this center line thing. This time, space, and other stuff aside, Wing Chun is a very simple system. The only center line that matters is your own. As a Wing Chun fighter you will usually be face on while almost all others will be side on. Or close to side on. Everything you do is usually dead on your own center, giving you the ability to use all your weapons with all the power you have. Your goal is to avoid being in your opponents center line, making him have to continually adjust or reposition himself in an effort to defend or attack. It is not important to attack his center mass.
Now, thing is, if an opponent fights side on or near side on, the part of his body facing you is his true center line and that is what you want to avoid by angling as you move in or out, forcing him to adjust his position. If you shift or shuffle for position you do so with your center line facing him at all times, which gives you the ability attack or defend at any time during the move. You are always ****ed and ready to fire.

[Ali. R]

feet follows hand, hands follow feet is more of a bridging concept and how one maintains structural alignment, personal space, advantageous positioning, facing, pursuit, etc in reaction to the energy on the bridge. Which follows which is primarily dictated by what limb the energy is being reacted on.
Walking around and swinging your arms really has no bearing in that discussion. Walking is a controlled fwd fall, has nothing to do with swinging the arms first or last. Try crossing your arms and walking..

What you’re doing is literally putting the cart before the horse, if the feet moves before the hands while attempting to make bridge contact, then one's penetration of the fighting lines would be in a none existent situation, because you’re asking with the feet and the hands.

The key is to seek and sink the bridge with bridge contact first and by just stepping in without the hands being a precursor; you would put yourself in defensive situation rather than an offensive one, if your opponent jams or wedge or even attack your attempt.

[Ali. R]

Try crossing your arms and walking..

Try stepping first and then throwing your jab behind the step. It will be void of any true power and balance.

[Yoshiyahu]

Sure, I guess I can agree with most of this. Things like gate theory and time/space considerations should always be considered.

To better understand what you mean, when you say "With footwork I step to blind side of his lead hand while pressing forward with my stance simultaneously jamming his lead hand or lead strike while counter striking at the same time." Are you referring to prior to engagement or afterwards based on the energy on the bridge?

Excellent point...In truth..Both Prior to engagment and also afterwards based on the energy of the bridge...I say both because in a real situtation there are no static postures for fighting or sparring. If my opponent is still I do A+B as entry or closing the gap technique...If my opponent is attacking or advancing I do A+B based off of what i feel from his bridge once I intercept his incoming attack an yielded to his force or turned it off. But I am simply using basic scenarios I think everyone should be able to relate to from sparring! Realistically its all about what works for you and how good your opponent is at countering, timing an accuracy...

[Ali. R]

If one doesn’t make bridge contact then he/she is headhunting (boxing or kick boxing). Your opponent will attack you or you will attack your opponent, then bridge contact will be made. If he likes to run then let him run, but don’t chase him/her.

When bridge contact is made one should be able to bridge walk your opponent’s fighting lines, but if one chooses to move this way and that way; but always away from bridge contact, one will have to keep starting over to find a good hitting range (with power).

When bridge contact is made stay with him/her by simply following your opponent’s offensive strike back to his/her mother line when they’re attempting to use the other hand, this is how you gain and keep the centerline when in action (timing)… This way it doesn’t make a difference in which way anyone moves because it only happens during bridge contact.

It’s simple, stay with comes and follow with what goes; meaning the upper extremities as well as the lower extremities, if you just try to hit and run you will never gain control of the fighting lines, and will only ware yourself out with nothing to show for it.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I am sorry to disagree with some here but to me it is obvious that the feet lead, body follows and hands end.

Consider stance turning, the feet move then the waist followed by the body then the hands.

Same with stepping with a punch. If the foot has not landed prior to the punch then there is less power transmitted to the opponent/target.

Jack Dempsey used to do a "falling punch" again the foot moved first and landed prior to the hand landing.

If you opt to lead with your hands then you will not have the structure of the body behind the movement.

Of course, feel welcome to feel differently, but practice the movements yourself and then tell me that the hands move first.

[Ali. R]

So you’re saying don’t step into the jab, but jab into the step. The feet should always follow the hands, like in bli jee; the hands move first in the fat sao set to make the pivot happen, just as the hands move first along with the elbow in the elbow set to make the feet move or follow up with a pivot.

I have never moved my feet before throwing my elbows; I’ve always let the flow of the elbows move my feet into position/pivot, and I’ve always let my punch move my feet when pivoting and not the other way around.

Heck, we're all entitle to our own opinion, But I’ll just stick with the training forms and what they dictate (facts).

Good post Dave.

[Ali. R]

Try pivoting first and then throw your elbow second. Then throw your elbow first as the feet follows up with the 'pivot'. And all will come into light.

[Sihing73]

Ali,

I will ask you to answer me one question;

When you punch, whether it be a jab or whatever, does you punch land before or after your foot touches the ground?

[Ali. R]

My hands move first to start the momentum of the step/entry, while my back leg follows to complete the balance of power.

So technically; the front step catches up with the ‘Mon Sao’ (asking) or strike itself, to help spread the balance of power evenly.

The momentum of body unity starts with the pop of the upper extremities, and then everything follows naturally behind that, just as the forms dictates.

But, to answer your question, the foot lands at the same time as the strike.

[imperialtaichi]

I focus on attack, and speed.

The less I move, the faster (and more invisible) I am; therefore, ideally the initial attack I prefer not to move my feet (except of course, I am going in to attack from a distance, then virtually I always use my kicks, but also kept as invisible as possible). Once the opponent's momentum/structure/mind/rhythm is broken, I can step to more advantageous positions.

Centre-line wise, I am more focused on destroying/occupying the opponent's centre than having to adhere to my own, which may limit me. There are two punches in the "Phoenix Eye Hammer" movement, the most fundamental move in the KL22; first one comes from outside-in, the second one comes from inside-out.