Kung Fu Sparring League

[Frost]

My personal experiences listed above are the reason I stated anyone could go into an mma gym and hold his own (not fighting the elite champions, just your average students)

ginosifu

and id say from my experience everyone i has seen try this gets a rude awakening, but like you say we all have different experiences and no need to get worked up about it, unless you are jamison that is

[YouKnowWho]

holding their own with MMA guys with no training correct?

I have

- seen some red neck used his brute force to knock down his boxer opponent in golden glove boxing.
- not seen any non-grappling red neck took down his Judo black belt opponent in Judo tournament.

Maybe the grappling art is different from the striking art. I just don't believe that no training can win in the area of grappling.

[Syn7]

Maybe the grappling art is different from the striking art. I just don't believe that no training can win in the area of grappling.

I agree. Assuming the size is similar. If the guy is twice your size, he has a decent chance of getting you down and pounding you out. Unless you can capitalize on a mistake and submit, he'll prolly hurt you.

[David Jamieson]

This is wrong bordering on asinine.

I think what you meant to say was you can throw a guy with 3 years of "traditional" gong fu training into the ring against a guy with 3 months of MMA/jiujitsu training and he'll get his clock cleaned.

That is as asinine a statement as any.

3 months of mma? please. That amounts to another bullshit meme.

Come on. Fighting is simple and can be executed and you can achieve without much intelligence otherwise.

[MasterKiller]

I have

- seen some red neck used his brute force to knock down his boxer opponent in golden glove boxing.
- not seen any non-grappling red neck took down his Judo black belt opponent in Judo tournament.

Maybe the grappling art is different from the striking art. I just don't believe that no training can win in the area of grappling.

Right. They call it a "puncher's chance" for a reason. You can always get lucky swinging your fists.

Wrestling/Grappling is a completely different story. No skill vs. Some skill is gonna lose 100% of the time, or at least be a stale mate if the skilled guy is just stalling.

[pateticorecords]

Why are we always arguing the same points... yeah, we know that TMA doesn't work that well in the ring. We know that MMA better prepares you for fighting.

So, cross-train, learn their moves, techniques, principles... then use it against them


“If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.” (Sun Tzu- Art of War)

My passion are TCMAs but I am also box and grapple/wrestle... I want to be able to be proficient in all areas.

[MasterKiller]

so, cross-train, learn their moves, techniques, principles... Then use it against them:d.

qft



.

[bawang]

but dirty barbarian MMA no honor

[pazman]

Why are we always arguing the same points... yeah, we know that TMA doesn't work that well in the ring. We know that MMA better prepares you for fighting.

So, cross-train, learn their moves, techniques, principles... then use it against them


“If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.” (Sun Tzu- Art of War)

My passion are TCMAs but I am also box and grapple/wrestle... I want to be able to be proficient in all areas.

I'm not sure if that was where the thread conversation was going.

[Syn7]

Fighting is simple and can be executed and you can achieve without much intelligence otherwise.

That really depends who you're fighting.

[David Jamieson]

That really depends who you're fighting.

Well, hypothetical queries can take you pretty far up your own ass if you really want them too.

I prefer to keep it real.

apples aren't oranges and vice versa. If someone wants to fight competitively nhb, then Traditional arts of any stripe are not for them.

If they want to G&P, they can't do just MT or KF, they have to cross train etc etc etc.

This conversation of x vs y is useless. It is dumb to tell a chess player that checkers is better. It's not, it's different and yet both are games by definition.

Boxers don't grapple and yet who goes to a boxing forum and tells them their style is lacking?

who goes to a MT gym and tells them their style is lacking?

Who goes to a wrestling club and tells them their style is lacking because they don't hit each other?

The simple fact that there are people who won't embrace that simple truth and don't understand that many Kung Fu practitioners have zero interest in fighting whatsoever and are looking to develop themselves through the art and not through that aspect of it sometimes stifles me.

Anyone who teaches Kung Fu knows this for a fact. They can outright ask a student if they would like to take a fight path or learn the forms and so on. Quite often, in fact most of the time, people do not want to take that fight path.

If they did, they can certainly sign up in any number of places that provide that and even then, there is a growing trend in traditional schools to offer that simply because of the exposure it gets in our bread and circuses world.

I think the original intent of the post was to find bridge for that in the people who take up Kung Fu for the sake of it and not for the opportunity to go toe to toe with someone in a spectacle. So, to immediately drive it to the spectacle end of fighting, which sportive combative is, is in my opinion, silly and winds up in teh mma vs tma dead end stupifying discussions.

[pateticorecords]

The United States Kuo Shu Federation was holding some decent Lei Tai tournaments. I Sifu Gino holds some events as well. Man Up Stand Up Traditional Wushu Fighting league is holding some interesting match ups...
there are options out there.

Many open style tournaments now have MMA, Grappling (Gi and No Gi), Stand up & Take-down-Throw, continuous sparring, continuous point sparring divisions.

MuSu Fight 2011 Choy Lay Fut Vs. Bagua http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWQvEFxCoZI

[ginosifu]

Well, hypothetical queries can take you pretty far up your own ass if you really want them too.

I prefer to keep it real.

apples aren't oranges and vice versa. If someone wants to fight competitively nhb, then Traditional arts of any stripe are not for them.

If they want to G&P, they can't do just MT or KF, they have to cross train etc etc etc.

This conversation of x vs y is useless. It is dumb to tell a chess player that checkers is better. It's not, it's different and yet both are games by definition.

Boxers don't grapple and yet who goes to a boxing forum and tells them their style is lacking?

who goes to a MT gym and tells them their style is lacking?

Who goes to a wrestling club and tells them their style is lacking because they don't hit each other?

The simple fact that there are people who won't embrace that simple truth and don't understand that many Kung Fu practitioners have zero interest in fighting whatsoever and are looking to develop themselves through the art and not through that aspect of it sometimes stifles me.

Anyone who teaches Kung Fu knows this for a fact. They can outright ask a student if they would like to take a fight path or learn the forms and so on. Quite often, in fact most of the time, people do not want to take that fight path.

If they did, they can certainly sign up in any number of places that provide that and even then, there is a growing trend in traditional schools to offer that simply because of the exposure it gets in our bread and circuses world.

I think the original intent of the post was to find bridge for that in the people who take up Kung Fu for the sake of it and not for the opportunity to go toe to toe with someone in a spectacle. So, to immediately drive it to the spectacle end of fighting, which sportive combative is, is in my opinion, silly and winds up in teh mma vs tma dead end stupifying discussions.

AGREED

How bout just a discussion about the thread title only? An all kung fu sport fighting discussion has merit in the kung fu world... Those of us wishing to discuss the finer details of kung fu sparring may not really care about other sport fighting venues.

ginosifu

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why are we always arguing the same points... yeah, we know that TMA doesn't work that well in the ring. We know that MMA better prepares you for fighting.

So, cross-train, learn their moves, techniques, principles... then use it against them


“If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.” (Sun Tzu- Art of War)

Couldn't tell you how many times I and others have said just that.

[YouKnowWho]

most of the time, people do not want to take that fight path.

A teacher has right not to teach certain student. When a teacher tells his students that he wil not teach any forms, those students who are only interesting in "health", "performance", "inner peace" won't stay anyway. We can't force others but we can stay within our own principle and believe.

So, cross-train, learn their moves, techniques, principles... then use it against them

This is an excellent point. If you have never seen "pull guard", you may not be able to handle that situation well. Besides, to have somebody challenges your best techniques and you can still make it works, you will smile in your dream for the next 3 nights. That kind of satisfaction even money can't buy it.