Analogue for Human head

[Syn7]

I could do expensive if it will last.....

Thing is I don't quite get the science here...

I mean, if it is the same size and weight, it is the same average density right? But to make it realistic it needs the same coefficient of restitution (I think?) or something like that. I don't know if anyone knows what that is for a head......

lol, don't overthink this. Forget COR for now.

A human head does not have a consistent density all the way thru, of course. Without getting complicated lemme just put it to you like this. You need three components. You need to imitate the top layer which is quite elastic but thin. You need a skull, which is much more dense, somewhat flexible and quite brittle compared to a bowling ball. Then you need something to imitate the inner area(brain and surrounding fluids and whatnot). You can do a sh1t ton of research or you can just use easy approximations. Know what I mean? If you want an exact replica, you need to do a ton of work. If you just want a close approx. it's much MUCH less work. The skull will be the hardest to approximate.

Paper mache with a wood skull(you need to use the right wood) with a strong balloon full of jello or something inside the wood. Pack it tight, but not to the point to where it comes out of your wood skull.

With a lil more thought I'm sure some folks can come up with great examples. This one is just off the top of my head. If something comes to me, I'll let you know.

And no, the expensive realistic ones will not stand the test of time. They are like a real head except it wont heal in between sessions. Once you damage it, it's all downhill from there. They are typically for one time use for acquiring data on head trauma.

[RenDaHai]

lol, don't overthink this. Forget COR for now.

Hehe, yeah.

Good ideas, cheers... So you reckon I can't make a approximation with just 1 substance... I need all 3 layers.....

Thats sounds good. I'm thinking some kind of rubber for the outside ( the paper mache won't last long enough, though it will be easy to shape. Wood is good for the skull, but I don't know if it will last, maybe if it has the pressure of the gel behind it. The gel should be easy enough.

.... I have heard of the ballistic dummies but as you say they won't last. i have seen what a few seconds of hard strikes can do to mans face... I am sure the ballistic dummy wouldn't last long enough for me to get tired.

[wenshu]

Cadavers.

Better yet. Zombies.

[bawang]

i hear u americans opress the chocolate peoples. maybe you can buy one bag of chocolate men from market and practice on them?


also lol@ heavy bag hurting ur hands desite being a shaolin badass

[Yum Cha]

Coconut in the husk is interesting. Its hard, but the husk gives some give. If you can break the coconut in the middle through the husk, good luck!

Also, the head rotates. a sphere on one mounting point. Concussions and knockouts are more about rotating the head sideways, or front to back, to bounce the brain. If you throw punches to break bones in the skull, you are doing it the hard way.

[Syn7]

Whatever you choose, just sure that you can take it apart and replace sections easily. The closer it is the real, the more you'll have a need to spare parts.

Coconut is a good idea. Maybe you can put newspaper around it then cover it with rubber. Cheap, easy, replaceable.

The idea isn't to break the coconut, it's to condition your hands so you can hit it full force and minimize the damage to the hands. But if you do break the coconut and it doesn't hurt, you're doing good. As long as you aren't damaging the nerve endings so bad that you feel nothing, ever. Not good. I have my own ideas about hand conditioning, but I'm sure you'll get 1001 point of views on this site. Dale is prolly a good place to start. It's what he does.

If I were you, I would not use the analog for practice. I would just use it to chart my progress and find out where I'm at in relation to hand vs head trauma. Know what I mean?

A sand bag will give your hands the same conditioning as an analog head. Not exactly the same, but close enough.

I remember punching a wall when I was young and how much it hurt. Then after a few years of bagwork I found I could hit it way harder and feel no pain. But it's not like I was practicing on the wall.

[Bacon]

I think the closest you could get is to get a speed bag and fill the bladder in it with a dense substance. Sand will make it solid but too heavy. A jelly like substance will give closer to a realistic mass but will not be quite as solid. Something like beans would be a good compromise but they will likely shift on impact even if you fill the bladder all the way due to the air in between.

The best option might be a combination of two or maybe even all three. Probably a combination of something like beans and jelly would be the best bet and then carefully duct-taping the exterior to prevent undue stress on the seams and provide additional solidity.

It won't be quite as solid as a skull especially given the padding of the bag but it will approximate its size and mass well and give similar solidity. You'd have to play with the mixture to find the right mix.

[Syn7]

That ridge line along the jaw and the lower part of the side of the head can hurt like a motherfucker. I remember that pain. It sucks. And in real fights it happens. All the time. Teeth are a bitch too.

Good idea with the mixing.

[RenDaHai]

Great ideas guys, thanks!

Yeah, its not so much that I want to condition the hand. There is only so far that can go. Rather I want to be more experienced with the preset limit of power you can realistically use. Because I believe this is below what I usually train to. Punching softer allows me to be more changeable and use smaller movements. But I want still want to strike at the limit my hands can take.

Basically I want to use it to calibrate my technique.

[Syn7]

Just tape your hands every morning.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Just clubbing someones head is brutish and the possibility of self injury is great. If you break a hand and your opponent is not down, you have a serious problem. I can knock a person out with little power. It is in how it it applied and where. Less likely to injure myself. Also, a slap delivers far more shock than a fist. The fist gives a piercing sort of impact that may or may not do a lot of damage, but a good slap to the head, although causing probably no lasting injury, can shoot a shock wave through the brain which will likely disorient or stun temperarily.
I was playing around with a friend when we were young men, and he was letting everyone strike him in the gut, and even the solar plexus. The fist just popped and left a little red spot, but did him no real harm. With a moderate slap at a downward angle to his solar plexus he went down to the floor and could not breath. With the fist, he would exhale at the instant of impact making his muscles tighten up really hard. But no matter how hard they got, the slap shock wave went right on through them and into the solar plexus.

[EarthDragon]

standing 6 feet high X 6 inch makiawara boards wrapped in rope are excellenct, but burry them in the ground dont mount to wall as they dont flex. but you can blast thiese as hard as you like for excellenct conditioing, just a thought,

[Syn7]

The fist gives a piercing sort of impact that may or may not do a lot of damage, but a good slap to the head, although causing probably no lasting injury, can shoot a shock wave through the brain which will likely disorient or stun temperarily.

I can vouch for that. I've felt it.

That being said, It is not very uncommon to miss your target in a competitive fight. Hitting somebody in the wrong spot is likely. Unless you are significantly faster.

[David Jamieson]

wall bag =ok sub.
heavy bag is fine for hand conditioning.
table bag for conditioning

go slow, take your time, your hands will harden up and your wrists won't be as weak as when you started.

supplemental training is helpful.

The thing about hitting a bag with no gloves is that your bag will get ruined before your hands get much more than skinned knuckles if you haven't conditioned you hands with some other method to toughen the skin such as iron palm.

[Lucas]

find one of those hollow plastic halloween skulls and fill it with sand paint the outside with rubber cement and duct tape that beotch up with square sponges under the tape where the cheeks are