Analogue for Human head

[Faruq]

Hey Team
I want to construct a good analogue of the human head that I can punch to gauge how much power I should be using and improve the angle of my punches...

ANyone else have a good analogue?

I thought that was what coconut breaking was for? Boy, was my comment here late, lol. Plus, it was quite poorly phrased as well.

[Syn7]

Well that is one attribute we have going for us. Don't be too quick to discount:

• functional in various climates and regions
• able to fashion weapons and traps
• able to start and use fire
• able to use and consciously switch between strategies
• able to run our bodies off of more than one type of diet (omnivores)
• etc.

Humans have a lot of potential in more than just survival and destruction as well if we choose to embrace it.

Yeah, but it all started with the running. Once we came down from the trees running was our main hunting technique. The potential for versatility in Humans was there, but not quite exposed yet. As we migrated off the continent we adjusted to different environments and that's basically how we became so different from one environment to the next. Weapons and tools were already a part of us when we were still in the trees. Strategic abilities were also diversified with the change in geography.


I am going to do some endurance hunts in the spring. Basically how it works is you need to be a good LD runner, you need that runners constitution and you need to know how to track animals. When we run at a jog, we sweat and don't have to stop to cool off. Most mammals on the other hand cannot pant while in a gallop. You need to run fast enough that they need to gallop to maintain distance, but don't overdo it. They need to stop in order to cool down. That's when you gain ground. Eventually the animal will just overheat and you can do as you will. Stab it, shoot it, spear it, swat it, or whatever.

I love this topic and I totally think we should have a thread about it. But I don't wanna derail this thread so I'll stop.

[Bacon]

Actually it's not likely humans developed into bipeds because of running. We are arguably less efficient than our four legged brethren even in our current state. The ability for cooling due to upright posture, freedom of hands and arms for gathering and other work, even seemingly larger size for intimidation are all very likely factors.

Also when you consider that first our legs shortened and then our arms shortened we would have been highly ungainly at first and there would have been no selective advantage to it for the purpose of running.

[Kellen Bassette]

Yeah, but it all started with the running. Once we came down from the trees running was our main hunting technique. The potential for versatility in Humans was there, but not quite exposed yet. As we migrated off the continent we adjusted to different environments and that's basically how we became so different from one environment to the next. Weapons and tools were already a part of us when we were still in the trees. Strategic abilities were also diversified with the change in geography.


I am going to do some endurance hunts in the spring. Basically how it works is you need to be a good LD runner, you need that runners constitution and you need to know how to track animals. When we run at a jog, we sweat and don't have to stop to cool off. Most mammals on the other hand cannot pant while in a gallop. You need to run fast enough that they need to gallop to maintain distance, but don't overdo it. They need to stop in order to cool down. That's when you gain ground. Eventually the animal will just overheat and you can do as you will. Stab it, shoot it, spear it, swat it, or whatever.

I love this topic and I totally think we should have a thread about it. But I don't wanna derail this thread so I'll stop.

Good luck with that. I know people who hunt with spears but they have to ambush. Animals of any size are just too quick and zig zag and are simply better at running over the rough terrain in the woods. Try to run down a deer it's going to circle into a swamp...a hog will probably go through some brush so thick you'll never be able to run through that stuff...an opossum, porcupine, squirrel, skunk or raccoon..sure...but anything bigger...doubtful...

Early man probably surrounded large animals in a circle and speared them, until they got good at ambushing...

But running through the woods is an awesome agility exercise....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yeah, but it all started with the running. Once we came down from the trees running was our main hunting technique. The potential for versatility in Humans was there, but not quite exposed yet. As we migrated off the continent we adjusted to different environments and that's basically how we became so different from one environment to the next. Weapons and tools were already a part of us when we were still in the trees. Strategic abilities were also diversified with the change in geography.


I am going to do some endurance hunts in the spring. Basically how it works is you need to be a good LD runner, you need that runners constitution and you need to know how to track animals. When we run at a jog, we sweat and don't have to stop to cool off. Most mammals on the other hand cannot pant while in a gallop. You need to run fast enough that they need to gallop to maintain distance, but don't overdo it. They need to stop in order to cool down. That's when you gain ground. Eventually the animal will just overheat and you can do as you will. Stab it, shoot it, spear it, swat it, or whatever.

I love this topic and I totally think we should have a thread about it. But I don't wanna derail this thread so I'll stop.

Cardio vascular endurance is crucial for survival in the past, yes of course.
BUT not for running per say, fast walking, relaxed jog would be more correct and the only time that was done was when running after a wounded animal.
You don't track by running, you don't hunt by running.
Hunting and tracking are slow and methodical.
What humans have is a very good capacity to be both sprinters AND endurance hunters.
You would never run down an animal that was NOT wounded already, it would take too much time, be to dangerous and tire you out too much.

[sanjuro_ronin]

To re-iterate:
The issue of hand damage has little to do with how hard the head is, but mostly to do with hitting it in a bad way because it moves.
Very few people with conditioned hands ( people that regularly hit things) will hurt their hands punching a head that isn't moving because they will hit the right place with the right part of their hand.
Move the head however and all of a sudden you hit with the wrong part of your hand on the wrong part of the head.
Ouch.

[RenDaHai]

To re-iterate:
The issue of hand damage has little to do with how hard the head is, but mostly to do with hitting it in a bad way because it moves.
Very few people with conditioned hands ( people that regularly hit things) will hurt their hands punching a head that isn't moving because they will hit the right place with the right part of their hand.
Move the head however and all of a sudden you hit with the wrong part of your hand on the wrong part of the head.
Ouch.

I see. Definately. When we train with gloves I don't notice much which part hits my partner, when we train with the face masks and no gloves though I do, and to be honest with a fist it rarely meshes well with the target.

I want a hard target so I can experiment more with the power and also the best Palm/fist shapes and angles to use. The drill fist (hold it vertical but upside down, big knuckle down) I find meshes the best, whatever happens it tends to hit with the big knuckle and give a solid hit. With a soft target, it shapes to your hand so every fist works well, but this is not the case in reality and some shapes will be much better than others.


Its important for me to see what makes the best contact with a hard, face shaped surface, even given the head will slip and move. Perhaps I could get a perspex face mask then coat the soft bits in something harder and use a live partner to let me punch him while he dodges.

[GeneChing]

Actually, as runners go, humans aren't that fast or agile compared to some other species. There are a lot of theories about why humans have excelled. My two favs are 1. because the human female is sexually ready on a monthly basis instead of an annual basis, which kept the males hanging out more and thus founded society and 2. because humans figured out how to make beer (other animals have figured out naturally-occurring recreational intoxicants, but humans actually worked out how to brew it) and consequently, developed agriculture to make more beer. So Syn7, you can stick to your running theory. He who fights and runs away, eh? I'll stick to my belief in sex and beer.

Back to hitting the skull, just like any part of the body, it's a lot about where you hit it. While it's great to have the power to smash a coconut, I'd advocate targeting the softer parts first.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Actually, as runners go, humans aren't that fast or agile compared to some other species. There are a lot of theories about why humans have excelled. My two favs are 1. because the human female is sexually ready on a monthly basis instead of an annual basis, which kept the males hanging out more and thus founded society and 2. because humans figured out how to make beer (other animals have figured out naturally-occurring recreational intoxicants, but humans actually worked out how to brew it) and consequently, developed agriculture to make more beer. So Syn7, you can stick to your running theory. He who fights and runs away, eh? I'll stick to my belief in sex and beer.

Back to hitting the skull, just like any part of the body, it's a lot about where you hit it. While it's great to have the power to smash a coconut, I'd advocate targeting the softer parts first.

Sex and Beer.
Now you all understand why I pledged my allegiance to this man !

[GeneChing]

Sex and Beer.
Now you all understand why I pledged my allegiance to this man !

And here all this time I thought is about targeting the softer parts first.

[Syn7]

Good luck with that. I know people who hunt with spears but they have to ambush. Animals of any size are just too quick and zig zag and are simply better at running over the rough terrain in the woods. Try to run down a deer it's going to circle into a swamp...a hog will probably go through some brush so thick you'll never be able to run through that stuff...an opossum, porcupine, squirrel, skunk or raccoon..sure...but anything bigger...doubtful...

Early man probably surrounded large animals in a circle and speared them, until they got good at ambushing...

But running through the woods is an awesome agility exercise....

I don't think you understand the concept of an endurance hunt. It isn't about outrunning an animal with speed. It's about out enduring them. I've seen it done. They get too hot and just stand there while you take em down. They can't move, they are done. They will very rarely be within your line of sight during the hunt. This is why you need to understand tracking. Otherwise you will just end up running down old tracks. The bigger the animal, the easier it is to run them down. Do some research before you comment. Type it into google or find a youtube vid. Then come back.

That being said, this technique is prolly the hardest effective hunting technique. But then that's the point. If I was really hungry I would just shoot em or go to the store.

[Syn7]

Cardio vascular endurance is crucial for survival in the past, yes of course.
BUT not for running per say, fast walking, relaxed jog would be more correct and the only time that was done was when running after a wounded animal.
You don't track by running, you don't hunt by running.
Hunting and tracking are slow and methodical.
What humans have is a very good capacity to be both sprinters AND endurance hunters.
You would never run down an animal that was NOT wounded already, it would take too much time, be to dangerous and tire you out too much.

Yes, when I say running I don't mean sprints. KLight jog that can be kept up for hours. Like a marathon.

I will find an endurance hunt video and show you how wrong you are about the wounded part.

Handicapped, yes, wounded, no. Handicapped by it's own cooling system.

The endurance technique is the first. It is not the most effective. It is not the most practical. But then that isn't really the point in these times. At the time the early humans didn't have many options. We just weren't there yet.

So just to be clear, do you think it isn't doable or do you think it's just crazy impractical? Cause you kinda said both. I would agree with the latter. But like I said, that isn't the point. I just want to see if I can. I have caught animals with many traps and weapons, but never by endurance. It will be very hard.

And yes, you can follow fresh tracks in a light jog. You can stop, eat, sleep. It doesn't matter. It will just make it last longer than it needs to. Best to get you rest and sleep first

When I get a chance I'll go look for a vid. Anyone wanna guess who used this technique up until recently for cultural preservation? DJ knows. Or atleast he should.

[Syn7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o

Here you go. All on film to be seen by all.

[GeneChing]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_jIj4UWuRg

Here you go. All on film to be seen by all.

[Syn7]

To re-iterate:
The issue of hand damage has little to do with how hard the head is, but mostly to do with hitting it in a bad way because it moves.
Very few people with conditioned hands ( people that regularly hit things) will hurt their hands punching a head that isn't moving because they will hit the right place with the right part of their hand.
Move the head however and all of a sudden you hit with the wrong part of your hand on the wrong part of the head.
Ouch.

Yeah I had a tooth break off in between my middle and ring knuckes. I was aiming for the area between the tip of the chin and the back end of the jawline. Hurt like a motherfucker.