pudao

[PalmStriker]

Personally I only train with Pudaos with live blades. I see no point in practicing without a semblance of real application, in fact I find it pathetic.

Pathetic? You must be fresh off the battlefield.

[Bacon]

I'd say after a certain skill level you should train with a live blade to really learn the healthy level of respect you need for that sharp edge. Until you have that skill level though keep with the dull blades or you're liable to end up with a pretty serious scar.

[pazman]

When we say training, are we talking about test cutting and technique practice, or spinning a pudao around, doing taolu? Unless your teacher trains for test cutting, you have no business being around a live blade like that.

Live blades should not be used for performance.

I would be very surprised if any gongfu school had actual training in Pudao, as most gongfu schools don't have any business teaching real weapon skills in the first place.

[Bacon]

When I say training I mean practicing movements/forms. If after years of training with a dull blade you don't do it with a live one, starting very, very carefully, I don't think you really respect the weapon in your hands.

[pazman]

If you are practicing taolu with a pudao, you are performing and you are dancing.


I've seen lots of test cutting and real training in Japanese martial arts and I've seen much less in Chinese arts. I have yet to see any real training with pudao. I would love to see video.

[GeneChing]

It's not something a sane person practices for self-defense. Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge advocate for practicing with live blades and cutting practice, but as an academic pursuit. Before you get all 'won't work on the street/ineffective in the cage' consider the overall relevancy of the pudao today.

[pazman]

It's not something a sane person practices for self-defense. Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge advocate for practicing with live blades and cutting practice, but as an academic pursuit. Before you get all 'won't work on the street/ineffective in the cage' consider the overall relevancy of the pudao today.

Agreed. Sometimes when I see people wanting to play around with a live blade I get kind of squeamish. Life is full of cost-benefit decisions. Twirling around a real pudao while performing a taolu seriously runs the risk of ending up in a hospital visit, but I can't think of any real benefit to it.

If you want to learn to "respect the blade" go to a qualified teacher, not the guy that teaches you lion dance. And definitely not this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJFqveqtJ2M

[GLW]

Ah... I can't tell you how many times I got worried because some bad dudes came to a rumble with their Kwan daos , spears, and monk spades. It just made me shudder until the cops showed up at the mall and arrested all of them after they tased them following a threatening display of weapon twirling....

Want to work with the weight of a real weapon, fine. Want one that feels like a live one in spring and response...totally with you on that one too.

Want a Madao or a Pudao with live steel and a razor edge and I just have to say WTF... Can't demo with it...can't carry it from home to class without breaking the law, can't practice in a class with many people since someone might get in the way and you end up at the ER or funeral home....

I get the idea of live steel for Jian, Dao.... and other things...after all, we DO have to fight zombies for the Walking Dead....but beyond that.... WTF

and I like the idea of switchable ends for the weapons....buying one shaft and connecting just what I need....what a space saver at home.

[Kellen Bassette]

Some years back, a former student of one of my instructors, who had some mental issues...attacked the police with a katana when they showed up at his house...he's dead now....

[GeneChing]

You don't say? We have a whole thread dedicated to that - Bad Day for Samurai Wannabes - I just ttt-ed it just now.

I dabbled in iaido and batto-jitsu for a spell. I loved it. Occasionally, I still do some cutting practice or work with a live blade, although not so much as I did in my youth. Any forms practitioner should strive for authenticity, so using a live blade is a natural. However, it's something that should be approached very cautiously because a live blade changes everything. One mistake - well, I have some scars that I'll carry to my grave. Fortunately, it's just some minor scars, so small that I'd have to point them out. That's the worst of it.

That's the thing that makes forms practice so beautiful. Everyone here is always dissing forms because there are so many weak ones, but the truth of the matter is that you get out of a form what you put into it. Some practitioners are really weak - and there's nothing wrong with that. Heck, my mom does tai chi and it's really weak, but she gets her exercise and has fun, so where's the harm? On the flip side, you can go really deep into forms, especially weapons forms. To do so, you inevitably will work with real weapons with live blades. But I don't hold others to my standards. If someone else wants to practice with dull blades, that's their choice. If my mom ever takes up tai chi jian (unlikely) she'll be using a dull blade, I guarantee you that. For me personally, I like blades, but that's my personal choice. That's mostly why I'm here. Sharps are cool.

[Kellen Bassette]

It's hip to bash forms nowadays and say you only concentrate on partner application...forms are still one of the best training methods out there...so long as you include partner drilling and hard sparring; and understand the difference in form and application.

[GeneChing]

See now again, partner drilling and hard sparring - my mom ain't doing none of that. She's in her 80s. I have no problem with weak forms. They are great for kids and elderly, as well as countless nerdy types. Everyone here raises the bar pretty high (mostly to boast their own feeling of self-worth) but the truth of the matter is that we were all beginners once, so we should cut them a little slack.

The only problem I have is when weak practitioners claim to be strong based on their weak forms. But that's a totally different scenario.

Of course, my mom ain't doing no pudao either.

[Kellen Bassette]

I agree, a lot of people like forms just because they are fun and a good exercise, if that's all you want then that's cool. Fighting ain't for everyone.
If you want to fight then train your forms hard, study them and don't neglect the other things.

[Kellen Bassette]

You know we have to use those qualifiers Gene, because were all so paranoid about being lumped in with those OTHER traditional martial artists...in their Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Power Ranger fantasy world

[GeneChing]

... I have qualifiers on that too.

Like it or not, CTHD and Power Rangers have tremendous sway over pop culture. There's always been this weird self-loathing in the martial arts, perhaps because some of our fanboys can be so grossly over the top in their nerdiness, but it actually does us a great disservice. Take professional sport for example. If you go to any NFL game, you'll see hundreds if not thousands of embarrassing examples of humanity, often at their worse. Does the NFL diss them like we do? Heck no. They sell them as much paraphernalia as they can to continue to fund their franchise. In the same vein, I'm more then delighted to sell pudaos to anyone, no matter their skill level. If they want to pose with them, dance with them or just hang them on their walls, I really don't care. If CMA is to grow, we need to expand our economic base, and when selling things like medieval weapons, we really can't afford to be choosey. A few posts back on this thread, GLW had a great suggestion for two-piece pole arms. I honestly wish that it was something I could initiate. It's a really cool idea. But frankly, it isn't financially sound. There's not enough market for ancient Chinese pole arms to support such a venture. But if we could pull in more of those fanboys...

I'm just playing devil's advocate here.