"Fighting is Easy"

[Lucas]

the last fight i got into i used my skateboard. fighting isnt about fair, its about winning. what ever you constitute as a win is the only thing that matters. walking away safe, defeating the person attacking you, getting the jump for revenge, saving someone else from harm...what ever the 'win' is, is all that matters. thats why weapons trump most.

[RenDaHai]

the last fight i got into i used my skateboard. fighting isnt about fair, its about winning. what ever you constitute as a win is the only thing that matters. walking away safe, defeating the person attacking you, getting the jump for revenge, saving someone else from harm...what ever the 'win' is, is all that matters. thats why weapons trump most.

Indeed. The prerequisite for winning is not always to destroy the opponent. I think it is important for a MA to reflect this.

[Syn7]

Or even if they receive no MA training at all. There are many examples of the latter.

I would consider street thuggin to be a valid training method for fighting(not a good way, not nice, but valid none the less). You don't have to learn any style, just practice what experience has shown you to be effective. There are lots of people like that. It would be incorrect to say they have no MA training at all. Nobody who has never thrown a punch or even wrestled with their friends is going to be a good fighter. NONE!

Yeah some people are more naturally inclined, but that doesn't mean they can fight from day one. These people who are naturals pick it up faster once they start learning, but if that learning process never occurs, they will not be good fighters.

[GeneChing]

I've spent many years in DengFeng and enjoy exploring the seedy side of town. Everyone there is trained as you well know. You would be surprised at the street brawls there.... Its just as stupid. Its no different. As soon as it really kicks off it doesn't look skilled. Just a brawl. I think people forget their training and their instinct takes over. I think MA technique only becomes important if someone can keep control of their mind and emotion first.

You know, I saw a few street fights and challenges in Dengfeng when I was there too. I saw one that involved two kids wrestling over a dust pan that went from your typical push-and-shove to something out of a Jackie Chan movie. Blew me away. Perhaps that was a freak occurrence, but I'll never forget it.

I've been involved in a few textbook takedowns, which are very reaffirming. There's nothing more satisfying than getting an application to work in the real world. Mind you, the volunteer medical stuff I do is a little different because we aren't out to hurt the patient. Quite the opposite. They can hurt us but we aren't supposed to hurt them. That changes things a lot.

[YouKnowWho]

it is not a fair match,

That's why we need to learn a lot of dirty tricks and also try to protect us from others to use dirty tricks on us.

- You shake hand with someone.
- His monster grip almost crashed your hand.
- You tap out and he lets go your hand (He feels good about it).
- You say that you don't believe he can do it again.
- Next time he tries to shake your hand, you use your palm heel to push on his thumb and break it.

Is this fair? Who's fault is it to cause the broken thumb?

- One guy comes to you and asks for a challenge fight.
- You say OK, jump in, and take him down.

Is this fair?

- You serve tea to someone on dinner table.
- Suddently, you throw hot tea at his face, jump in, and beat him up.

Is this fair?

If one is not prepared for those kind of dirty tricks, is that his problem or your problem?

[Syn7]

- You shake hand with someone.
- His monster grip almost crashed your hand.
- You tap out and he lets go your hand.
- You say that you don't believe he can do it again.
- Next time he tries to shake your hand, you use your palm heel to push on his thumb and break his thumb.

Is this fair? Who's fault is to cause the broken thumb?

It's his fault for letting you tap out! But no, it isn't "fair play". But most fights are very very UNfair. Fair has nothing to do with surviving a violent encounter. Fair play may even get you hurt. If you drop him and let him stand back up to box some more and he drops you, that's your own fault. You should finish or take the opportunity to get outta there. Finishing can be anything from caving in his skull to binding his hands and everything in between.
That being said, there are times when showing mercy is the best alternative. It may prevent future action against you. On the flipside, they may just come back and triple tap your ass. Two to center mass and one more in the head for good measure.

[RenDaHai]

It's his fault for letting you tap out! But no, it isn't "fair play". But most fights are very very UNfair. Fair has nothing to do with surviving a violent encounter. Fair play may even get you hurt. If you drop him and let him stand back up to box some more and he drops you, that's your own fault. You should finish or take the opportunity to get outta there. Finishing can be anything from caving in his skull to binding his hands and everything in between.
That being said, there are times when showing mercy is the best alternative. It may prevent future action against you. On the flipside, they may just come back and triple tap your ass. Two to center mass and one more in the head for good measure.

Thats the real trick isn't it.

You can escalate the violence and that gives you a bigger chance of winning. But it also puts you in more danger, and on dodgy legal and moral ground. There are many consiquences to each action.

If you choose never to be the one to escalate, to change the rules, then you will always be at the disadvantage.

It means you have to be a great judge of the situation.... its not really something that can be taught so easily huh.....

[YouKnowWho]

You can escalate the violence and that gives you a bigger chance of winning. But it also puts you in more danger,

Oneday I asked my teacher, "What's the best way to prevent people from challenge you day by day?" He said, "If you can build up bad reputation that whoever challenges you would get serious injury, nobody would want to take chance to challenge you after that." He also said, "The day that you stepped on the path of TCMA, you truly didn't have much choice."

He was talking about his generation in China. I'm not sure it applies in our generation outside China. What's your thought?

[RenDaHai]

You know, I saw a few street fights and challenges in Dengfeng when I was there too. I saw one that involved two kids wrestling over a dust pan that went from your typical push-and-shove to something out of a Jackie Chan movie. Blew me away. Perhaps that was a freak occurrence, but I'll never forget it.

Hehe. Oh yeah, I'm talking about the drunken brawls outside the KTVs and so called nightclubs. (its often school coaches). They are fast and powerful and agile, but they totally degenerate into mindless violence. They always go for a bottle or stool or something. Dissapointing.

The school playground fights are awesome. The kids really go at it and it does go full on movie style. But its not quite the same, its missing the violence. Great fun to watch them though. Happened every day at Tagou. YOu get to see some crazy moves actually connect. Seriously they pull out Xuanzi and stuff. Awesome.

[MightyB]

But it really seems to me some of you really want MA to be all about Competition. But to be honest, in my experience a real fight is rarely a competition, its a foregone conclusion. All of us love a close match. Thats what competition is all about. But with real combat no-one wants to gamble their lives on a close match.

No, my point in bringing up this discussion has nothing to do with competition. The point I'm trying to make is using the most basic skills, techniques, whatever - really being able to use those. Not theoretical, not just knowing the text book "application" with one of your compliant buddies or students - No, it's about knowing and using, and being able to use the techniques from your system. That should be the goal. With a "pfft fighting is easy" attitude, people simply miss the point - to the ki master who thought he was chi blasting the room, to him fighting was easy because he thought he could use super mental bullets - one MMAer newbie beyotch slapped him on TV because of that mistake. I've met many people that thought they were studying martial arts, thought they knew martial arts, but they knew nothing because they could not apply any of the techniques they were training to a non-compliant person. What's the use in that? It means you are worse than a white belt to me. I'm not talking about the old, or the infirmed. I'm talking about young, able bodied men and women that could not do a basic wrist escape even though they thought they knew chin na, or do a simple trap on a fist to cuffs exchange. What's the friggin point? They of course believed fighting was easy and were somehow above the fray because they were martial artists. as my Si Gung would say "Lop Sop".

[GeneChing]

The school playground fights are awesome. The kids really go at it and it does go full on movie style. But its not quite the same, its missing the violence. Great fun to watch them though. Happened every day at Tagou. YOu get to see some crazy moves actually connect. Seriously they pull out Xuanzi and stuff. Awesome.

Good to know some things haven't changed in Dengfeng.

the last fight i got into i used my skateboard.

You know, I have a Shaolin Skateboard deck. It was a gift from my Shaolin shidi. I don't ride. Besides, it's just the deck, no trucks. Ironically, I keep it in my weapons rack.

[RenDaHai]

He was talking about his generation in China. I'm not sure it applies in our generation outside China. What's your thought?

Thats a really interesting question. Back in the 50's and 60's is when some of my teachers trained and that was a really tough time in China. Then you would really have to have this attitude. But in the west, today, I don't think its a good idea. Society is more compassionate, at least on the surface and I think its necessary to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. But in a way that is the harder path to walk, because if you do it, you will always have the odds against you.

My oldest master was trained in the 30's and 40's and his attitude is different from the younger ones. He is very strict on WuDe.

The meanest was actually my Zen master.... He told me ' Your fist is like a gun, but your intent is the bullet, without the bullet a gun is little more than a club'. He explained a lot about 'ShaXin' Murderous intent and other things during combat but he said it was for the Soldier styles, not for me. He came up in the 50's.

[MightyB]

Oneday I asked my teacher, "What's the best way to prevent people from challenge you day by day?" He said, "If you can build up bad reputation that whoever challenges you would get serious injury, nobody would want to take chance to challenge you after that." He also said, "The day that you stepped on the path of TCMA, you truly didn't have much choice."

He was talking about his generation in China. I'm not sure it applies in our generation outside China. What's your thought?

It most definitely applies. Today the neighboring restaurant's chef, and one of my employees almost got into a fight due to a parking dispute. The chef happens to also be a wrestling coach, and was a former wrestler himself. He's big, muscular, agile and all of 25. I'm 38, 165 lbs soaking wet - but I'm friends with the local MMA school owner, who happens to be the local BJJ coach and who's a mutual friend of the chef's. The chef knows that I'm a Judo guy who is also known to go to the local MMA gym and give good fights with the guys.

I walked into the middle of the dispute, told my employee to go back to work, and told the angry chef who was about to throw down that he should just go back inside. He went back inside.

Reputation carries weight.

[Syn7]

Yes it is a judgment call and quite often it is specific to the local atmosphere. What is good here, may be a bad idea there. GI Joe had this one locked. Knowing is half the battle.

If you don't know or understand your opponent, avoidance is most likely your best bet. But then it really depends on the what wheres and whys.

[RenDaHai]

Knowing is half the battle..

I think this is right. YOu have to know your environment. If you are in the wrong part of town you can't act the same as you do in the nice part of town. Even body language can get you in a lot of trouble. But we can't always know the place.

I think if you carry yourself tough, trouble will find you.