No Style

[bawang]

I think you need a compliant partner to learn the technique. Then you need a non compliant partner to test it on. Some things you just can't develop in the heat of sparring...at least not well, you need to get the technique down and refine it. Then you can work it with non-compliance.

non compliance creates magical thinking and will turn your ass into a soccer ball

[pazman]

Bawang, what are some martial arts that have only non-compliant training?

[bawang]

Bawang, what are some martial arts that have only non-compliant training?

boxing wrestling and mma

[YouKnowWho]

boxing wrestling and mma

What's your definition of non-compliance? Can you make love to your girl if she is non-compliant?

[pazman]

boxing wrestling and mma

Nope. If you've ever trained in those you'd know that all of them depend on both compliant and non-compliant drills. If you say that combat training requires non-compliance, then you are correct, but both kinds of drills are utilized.

[bawang]

What's your definition of non-compliance? Resistance?

the receiving partner acting in a realistic manner

[YouKnowWho]

the receiving partner acting in a realistic manner

In training, what should your opponent react in a realistic manner when you apply a hip throw on him?

[bawang]

In training, what should your opponent react in a realistic manner when you apply a hip throw on him?

try not to get thrown

Nope. If you've ever trained in those you'd know that all of them depend on both compliant and non-compliant drills. If you say that combat training requires non-compliance, then you are correct, but both kinds of drills are utilized.

if you try using unrealistic kung fu techniques and get ur ass brutally kicked, you would understand where i am coming from. you sound like your ass is still tender virgin.

[pazman]

Okay Bawang, I think you might have a different idea of what "non-compliance" means, then.

Here are some "uchikomi" drills that a judo player will do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbs_aGNZVnI

I consider these compliant in that the receiving partner doesn't try to resist or try to make the the other player "lose". These are also required drills in learning the technique.

Non-compliant training would be either "mini-games" meant to isolate the technique or skill in question, or sparring. In this case, partners offer up resistance and try to "win" the situation.

[pazman]

try not to get thrown



if you try using unrealistic kung fu techniques and get ur ass brutally kicked, you would understand where i am coming from. you sound like your ass is still tender virgin.

Sounds like you are bitter about receiving bad instruction. Go learn some boxing. Wear pajamas and call it taiji. Sounds like your problems would be solved.

[bawang]

Sounds like you are bitter about receiving bad instruction. Go learn some boxing. Wear pajamas and call it taiji. Sounds like your problems would be solved.

this is exactly what im doing bro

[pazman]

this is exactly what im doing bro

You will learn the secret to the taiji push hands: sucker punch them before they sucker punch you.

[bawang]

when discussing we must know what is the context and the appropriateness.

it would be appropriate for mma forum to discuss compliance training because it might benefit them. this is a kung fu forum. almost all modern kung fu training is compliance training.so our attitude toward compiance training should not be positive.


the spirit of this discussion has not been about the merits of compliance training for combat. it has been used as an excuse to not train realistically and to justify the compliance training in kung fu.


in modern martial arts compliance partner drills is an accessory exercise. in kung fu it is usually the sole partner exercise. compliant drills is good for judo, its not good for kung fu.

[YouKnowWho]

try not to get thrown...

How? Are you talking about resistance? What kind of resistance?

- Sinking down?
- Moving back?
- Moving forward?
- Spinning?
- Jumping up?
- Apply hip throw counters?
- ...

The thing is if you do something, I suppose to borrow your force and execute different throw. You are helping me to develop other throws but not hip throw.

If you apply this, even the best throwing master on this planet won't be able to throw you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o7-XVuYXW8

If you resist, you are helping your opponent to train "use hip throw to set up inner hook". You are not helping him to train hip throw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPPY3A89dFo

I must miss something here. Please help me.

[bawang]

How? Are you talking about resistance? What kind of resistance?

- Sinking down?
- Moving back?
- Moving forward?
- Spinning?
- Jumping up?
- Apply hip throw counters?
- ...

The thing is if you do something, I suppose to borrow your force and execute different throw. You are helping me to develop other throws but not hip throw.

the whole point of a two partner drill is that your partner is a human being. if you need to practice the motion of your throw, use a log.

in old times the two man forms in long fist was done in full force. if you miss you are knocked out. this is non compliance.