No Style

[YouKnowWho]

Form should be abstract. The motion should be applicable to any combat.

You may look at this only from the "striking art" point of view. For a fist punch, palm strike, finger jab, your arm will move pretty much the same way. Whether you stand in your opponent's front door or side door, whether you and your opponent have the same side forward or different side forward, it won't make much different as long as your hand can reach to your opponent's face.

For hip throw and shoulder throw, your feet may move and turn exactly the same way, but your hand position are complete different.

For

- hip throw, one of your arm should warp one of your opponent's leading arms, your other arm should wrap your opponent's waist.
- shoulder throw, both of your hand should control your opponent's leading arm.

If your form has a body bending forward motion, without the detail hand movement, no matter how many times that you may train your solo form, you will never be able to apply either hip throw or shoulder throw.

[daiyoshida]

I usually just browse and snicker but I'm getting tired of the same old argument based on misconceptions on both sides. There is nothing old about exacting forms just as there is nothing new about no-form instinct method. Both have been around since the beginning of time and have been the favorite methods of dead soldiers.

Practicing forms blindly thinking that it will create some mystical power is silly, just as silly as assuming that spending years wearing gloves and hopping around with another guy wearing gloves will have any usefulness against a group of home invasion robbers much less in an actual military conflict.

Consider this, the soviet military training used methods surprisingly similar to Bagua Qigung. No inordinate emphasis on forms, no gloves, no "Sparring". Just simple exercises. These guys went to war and came back alive.

You're free to take classes and enjoy yourselves. But you need to remember that schools are businesses. They make money teaching you what you demand. Not what you actually need. Some people wants to learn forms and some people wants to spar. Nobody will pay good money to become soldiers.

[EarthDragon]

YKW

If your form has a body bending forward motion, without the detail hand movement, no matter how many times that you may train your solo form, you will never be able to apply either hip throw or shoulder throw.

truth. not only will you not understand the execution or placment of the hands on your opponent i.e above or below the elbow for shoulder throw or where on the waist to grab for the best leverage, you will also never obtain the muscle, mental or celluar memory.

[YouKnowWho]

There is nothing old about exacting forms just as there is nothing new about no-form instinct method.

No style means you start with application. You learn

- groin kick, face punch because it's effective combo in combat, it's not because that combo exist in your form.
- hip throw because it's the mother of all throws, it's not because there is a body bending move in your form that look like hip throw.

You go to school. Your teacher teaches you

1. 10 moves form. He then explains application for all those 10 moves.
2. 10 applications. You then link those 10 moves into a logical sequence yourself.

The end result of these 2 approaches may be the same but the starting points are different. The major difference here is by using the 1st approach, your learning material is restricted by your forms. By using the 2nd approach, your learning material will have no limitation.

[bawang]

No style means you start with application. You learn

- groin kick, face punch because it's effective combo in combat, it's not because that combo exist in your form.
- hip throw because it's the mother of all throws, it's not because there is a body bending move in your form that look like hip throw.

You go to school. Your teacher teaches you

1. 10 moves form. He then explains application for all those 10 moves.
2. 10 applications. You then link those 10 moves into a logical sequence yourself.

The end result of these 2 approaches may be the same but the starting points are different. The major difference here is by using the 1st approach, your learning material is restricted by your forms. By using the 2nd approach, your learning material will have no limitation.

culture is not about being "better".

[pazman]

Consider this, the soviet military training used methods surprisingly similar to Bagua Qigung. No inordinate emphasis on forms, no gloves, no "Sparring". Just simple exercises. These guys went to war and came back alive.

Wut?

[Syn7]

you will also never obtain the muscle, mental or celluar memory.

Very good point. This is why wrestlers have retard strength. It's also important to train somewhat realistically. Wrestlers are so used to the game that they turtle in MMA when they should roll to their back.

[Syn7]

Russian military does application and sparring. Don't be silly. Do some research.

[EarthDragon]

thanks syn7.

Very good point. This is why wrestlers have retard strength. It's also important to train somewhat realistically. Wrestlers are so used to the game that they turtle in MMA when they should roll to their back.

if you dotn train realistically you cannot convey the information you have to motion efficently.

the way you train is the way you fight, so naturally you will reult to your dicipline. even when drunken style you have a few LOl

[Syn7]

And that is why so many styles got away with not having any concept of a ground game and very simple standing grappling. Sometimes you get stuck in your bubble and it can be a serious reality check when venturing outside your comfort zone. I just hope people figure it out by expanding their minds, not being forced into a situation they aren't equipped for. UFC 1 is a perfect example when talking empty hand. Grapplers that could take a punch reigned supreme for a long time. It wasn't until strikers learned defensive wrestling that the reign ended.

[Syn7]

What is the 7 star technique where you deflect the arm inwards and charge in with your shoulder to the short ribs?

[YouKnowWho]

What is the 7 star technique where you deflect the arm inwards and charge in with your shoulder to the short ribs?

When you apply "shoulder strike", you have to make sure that none of your opponent's arms will be in your shoulder striking path. To achieve that, you can use "right down and left up separate hands". Your left hand push your opponent's right arm up, your right hand push his left arm down, you then slide in and strike your right shoulder at your opponent's chest.

[Syn7]

Do you run him over and take position for ground control or do you let him go flying?

[YouKnowWho]

Do you run him over and take position for ground control or do you let him go flying?

To push your opponent away is never a good idea. It's better to keep friend close but to keep enemy closer. A good enemy is a pass out (or dead) enemy below your knee. The shoulder strike by itself is not sufficient enough to take your opponent down. But it helps you to knock your opponent's leading leg off the ground. If you can obtain your opponent's leading leg and hook his back leg at the same time, your opponent will have no leg to stand but fall. You can also use shoulder strike to set up your hip throw since your leading arm is near your opponent's waist area.

[EarthDragon]

What is the 7 star technique where you deflect the arm inwards and charge in with your shoulder to the short ribs?

I teach 8 step , not 7 star so little different in translation but its simple sidee blcok mantis deflection and then ba duan with any part of the body moving and making the body move as one this is jing and can knock them on thier arsed simply.

thsi can be found in any martial art, as ykw sadi its what you do after that matters. i.e kick when hes falling, use your knee, hook hi ankle achilies tendon, lift leg,m run call the cops these are all your choices