Why do you need to train "forward roll"?

[YouKnowWho]

In the following clip from 4:32 - 4:44, you can see how people train "forward roll" in solo. When you take your opponent down, your body may smash on top of your opponent. Sometime this may cause injury. In order to prevent this from happening, you should try to roll your body over your opponent. At 6:03 - 7:07, the teacher taught his students how to do "forward roll" in wrestling.

What's your opinion on this?

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ3MjgyNzg0.html

[Lee Chiang Po]

In the following clip from 4:32 - 4:44, you can see how people train "forward roll" in solo. When you take your opponent down, your body may smash on top of your opponent. Sometime this may cause injury. In order to prevent this from happening, you should try to roll your body over your opponent. At 6:03 - 7:07, the teacher taught his students how to do "forward roll" in wrestling.

What's your opinion on this?

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ3MjgyNzg0.html

Actually, that looked like judo training to me. Jiujitsu and judo training require you learn tumbling and breakfall so that you can take your turn being tossed around. More people are injured in these two sports than most anything else because the students are just not well trained in this area. When I started training jiujitsu it was about 8 months before I was allowed to start training to throw or take down. What you seen was a simple forward tumble. Eventually one should be able to leap up into the air and come down on the floor on his back and break his fall without injury. When the old man did the take down and rolled off he was actually rolled off by the fellow on the bottom. He still had to roll to prevent injury and to remove himself from danger of counter attack.

[YouKnowWho]

Too many sacrifice throws have been used on the mat in the past 10 years. People no long concern their own balance after throw. Everybody try to use their opponent's body as their soft pillow for safe landing. To me, that's a serious problem not only for the future development of the throwing art but also for the safety issue.

In the following clip, you can see too many body crash on top another body. After all, it's just a "sport" and you are not trying to kill your opponent. Why didn't they just "roll over their opponent's body"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5440TDSn1E

The following article concern me big time.

http://judojiko.net/eng/

Over the 27-year period 1983 to 2009, 108 students died as a result of judo accidents in Japanese junior and senior high schools (age range ca 12 to 18years)1 , 60% of them from brain injury. The mean of four deaths per year is significantly higher than in any other school sport.　The incidence of death in judo among　junior high school students (age range ca 12 to 15years) is 5.3 times higher than in basket ball, which has the second highest death rate.

[Lee Chiang Po]

In order to be thrown without injury is to practice being thrown and breaking your fall. I almost walked because it took so long before I was allowed to actually throw people. The idea was that I had to take my turn as throw dummy and I needed to be durable enough to last a few good throws. I fell through a hole in the floor of a second story work station in a Gerber Baby food plant once. 32 feet to the tile and concrete floor below. I struck my face going through the square hole, but was able to push myself out and away from some upright pipes that would have impaled me, and landed flat of my back. I tucked my head in, and used all four points of feet and arms to break the full impact of the fall. I kept passing out because I could not breath, but would start breathing till I woke up. That went on a while but eventually I was able to get up. The medical team there came and thought I was dying. I was totally black from the nap of my neck down my back side to the bottom of my feet and palms of my hands. I could not work for a couple weeks, kidneys hurt like hell, but survived the fall. I can honestly say it was due to the solid 8 months of break fall training. 2 other men had actually fallen from that hole in the past years and both died instantly.
I have never been injured during jiujitsu training. I can do judo as well as anyone because of my training. I hold black belts in 2 separate organizations.

[Punch.HeadButt]

Hate to butt in with an off-topic question, but why didn't they, you know...patch the death hole? Or do anything to remove the Mortal Kombat pitfall?

For the sake of the topic, I will say I consider breakfalling/tumbling a very important skill to possess for anyone. It was something I was particularly keen on when teaching kids. People fall, kids fall more than most (apart from the elderly, perhaps). Being able to fall without injury, one way or another, is just a good skill to have, kind of like being able to swim is just a useful skill to have whether you plan on heading into a pool or not.

I used to play soccer when I was younger, and I always had a natural tumbling ability...I only realize on hindsight how useful that was. I had taken sliding tackles and sweeps while running full sprint, and would always just tuck, roll, and let the momentum bring me right back to my feet, back in the game immediately. The only time I ever fell down and didn't immediately pop back up was when someone took out my knee.

My father had gone through paratrooper training ("paratrooper" is probably an outdated term, but you know what I mean) when he was in the Marines. He's in his late 60s now. He lives in Lake Tahoe in a cabin, and last winter was clearing snow off the roof. He slipped on a patch of ice up there, and fell off the roof (it is a one-story cabin). As he tells it, he instinctively fell back on his training, collapsing his legs and rolling. Besides a few scrapes, he received zero injury. He lives alone, so that was a blessing.

The ability to know how to fall without receiving injury is just too **** useful to ignore. And I do consider "tumbling" to be more effective than "breakfalling", though I don't think it's often you get to choose between the two.

[Syn7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5440TDSn1E

1:29.... Butter! It was a hard throw and she had back control.


2:02... Hellzyeah. Love it.

[Syn7]

The following article concern me big time.

http://judojiko.net/eng/

Over the 27-year period 1983 to 2009, 108 students died as a result of judo accidents in Japanese junior and senior high schools (age range ca 12 to 18years)1 , 60% of them from brain injury. The mean of four deaths per year is significantly higher than in any other school sport.　The incidence of death in judo among　junior high school students (age range ca 12 to 15years) is 5.3 times higher than in basket ball, which has the second highest death rate.

All considering, 108 over 27 years isn't as bad as I thought it would have been. I think it's more about instructors allowing mismatches and kids not knowing their limits. It just screams of poor instruction and a serious lack of GOOD supervision. Some coaches get way too in to winning and the kids really suffer. That is a serious problem in all high school sports.


I would like to see the death rates among the higher levels in adults. That would tell us if it is the sport, or the people who are supposed to be taking safety seriously that are to blame.

[omarthefish]

In order to be thrown without injury is to practice being thrown and breaking your fall. I almost walked because it took so long before I was allowed to actually throw people. The idea was that I had to take my turn as throw dummy and I needed to be durable enough to last a few good throws. I fell through a hole in the floor of a second story work station in a Gerber Baby food plant once. 32 feet to the tile and concrete floor below. ..

Taken from the security video at your job?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUMUHFP6F5A

[Lee Chiang Po]

[QUOTE=Punch.HeadButt;1199952]Hate to butt in with an off-topic question, but why didn't they, you know...patch the death hole? Or do anything to remove the Mortal Kombat pitfall?


It was there for lifting cases of jars up from below, but the operator kept placing broken down boxes over it. I guess he never expected a new person to ever be up there. He lost his job as that was not the first time he did that.
Yes, jump training will definatly give you a skill set that can serve in every day life.

[YouKnowWho]

Taken from the security video at your job?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUMUHFP6F5A

That was exactly I was taught by my brother in law when I was a kid. My brother in law told me that his father didn't want to teach him and his brothers the "lighting skill". One of his brothers dug a hold and trained himself. His brother finally could jumped on top of the roof but was afraid to get back down because the height. His father finally taught his brother to "flip on the way down." I didn't quite believe in that. This clip seems to confirm what my brother in law had said. Not sure why flips can reduce the impact during landing though.

[Oso]

punch.headbutt said what i would say. i can say that as a mountain biker, i've used rolls to absorb/dissipate a lot of falls off the bike.

[Hebrew Hammer]

There are really two main reasons to practice these rolls and breakfalls, Lee touched on most of them for prevention of injury and the other main use is evasion as practiced in Ninjitsu training...against multiple opponents or those with weapons it's a great way to make yourself 'small' roll out of harms way and back on to your feet.

I also dabbled in Judo, we used to line up students kneeling on the floor and practice diving over them into a judo roll adding one additional person for each successive leap. It builds confidence and athleticism as well.

Anecdotally, similar to Oso's tale, I had a Tae Kwan Do instructor who claims that his training in rolling/tumbling helped him to walk away from a high speed motorcycle accident where he was thrown from his bike.

Overall, great vid...loved the sifu smoking a pipe while putting them through the paces...if only he was stroking a white beard with his off hand.

[PalmStriker]

Would not necessarily advise one to practice leaping forward rolls on cement but I used to do that a lot (quit at age 46) as a practical means of quick retreat/escape instead of an aerial forward flip. If I ever trip while running (tree root, etc.) I know that I can roll out of the fall (I have done so). Of course the ground with grass is softer than a wooden floor that is softer than asphalt that is softer than cement. I would leap roll up onto my feet in a crane stance or forward roll then back roll (reverse) up into a crane stance. Could also leap roll on cement and pick up a twenty dollar bill from the ground in the process, and also leap forward roll holding a sword or short staff. Don't do that stuff any more but know I can at any time if needed.

[omarthefish]

That was exactly I was taught by my brother in law when I was a kid. My brother in law told me that his father didn't want to teach him and his brothers the "lighting skill". One of his brothers dug a hold and trained himself. His brother finally could jumped on top of the roof but was afraid to get back down because the height. His father finally taught his brother to "flip on the way down." I didn't quite believe in that. This clip seems to confirm what my brother in law had said. Not sure why flips can reduce the impact during landing though.

I'm not sure either but I think it is similar to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCMmmEEyOO0

Or to just watch the principle in action without all the explanation:

http://youtu.be/uiyMuHuCFo4

[YouKnowWho]

I'm not sure either but I think it is similar to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCMmmEEyOO0

Or to just watch the principle in action without all the explanation:

http://youtu.be/uiyMuHuCFo4

According to that theory, when your body is spinning in the air, your head and feet just take turn to float in the air. What my brother in law told me was true. How did ancient Chinese find this out? If his father didn't do this himself, how did he come up this method? I wish I could see this clip when I was young. I would then have faith to try this myself.