Wing chun vids share please take 2

[anerlich]

So, WSL maybe didn't get special information from Yip Man that others missed out on, but he did get special information from his fighting experience, which others didn't really have.

Only SOME others. Not all by any means.

[Wayfaring]

Only SOME others. Not all by any means.

Yeah I don't get the WSL heritage combined with the slap fighting. To me seems to be a lack of congruence. Especially when you see examples out there like Ernie and Gary Lam's fighters.

[LFJ]

Slap fighting?

[Bacon]

This is a video I found on how to make cheap padding for a mook jong. It's embedded in the guy's blog and I can't pull out the URL from my phone. If anyone can feel free to repost the video only.

http://apexwingchun.wordpress.com/20...ding-under-20/

[k gledhill]

Yeah I don't get the WSL heritage combined with the slap fighting. To me seems to be a lack of congruence. Especially when you see examples out there like Ernie and Gary Lam's fighters.

Congruence, have you got a license for such big words ? You sure your parents know you're online ?

[anerlich]

"Congruence" is smaller than "assumptive egomaniac".

People who live in glass houses, and all that ...

[k gledhill]

"Congruence" is smaller than "assumptive egomaniac".

People who live in glass houses, and all that ...

You're still uninformed and making assumptions based on .....? clips

[Wayfaring]

You're still uninformed and making assumptions based on .....? clips

You know I'm probably uninformed and making assumptions based on clips too. This is why I'm using the word "congruence" - (sorry kev didn't mean to walk outside your vocab there), and pointing out that virtually all of the Phillip Bayer footage I see online looks a lot like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcozWSvpjs

What do I see here? Well, I hear very dramatic music kind of like I'm supposed to be watching two gladiators fight to the death. Then, I see the guy supposedly sparring with Bayer over a 1:34 period never get hit once with a punch, but pushed in the face a dozen times, and pushed back a dozen times. I also see this neat little chop to the neck happen a dozen times, and it's held there to the neck after the slappy impact like the student is supposed to realize he is very close to death's door.

Then I look at other clips, and basically the same pattern repeats itself. A lot of slap and push, and no punching. And I compare this to what I read of WSL's fighting prowess that was tested often by actually punching people, and being in fighting situations where you actually get hit. And I see a problem with that really big vocabulary word there - "congruence".

So kev, once you get done wondering whether or not my 73 year old mother knows I'm on the internet or not, maybe you could explain to me this "congruence" issue.

Or, in other words,

"Why so slappy chappy?"

[LFJ]

A lot of slap and push, and no punching. And I compare this to what I read of WSL's fighting prowess that was tested often by actually punching people, and being in fighting situations where you actually get hit.

There's your problem. Comparing chi-sau practice to fighting.

I saw a lot of punching in that clip. Maybe your internet connection is slow? But if you actually punch your partner (which you want to see?) you won't have anyone to train with, or they just won't learn anything.

Mind you... each time you make contact with your palm to your opponent's face and push, that is well understood as easily being a punch to knock your head off in reality. But it's partner practice, not fighting......

Did you ever see WSL practicing chi-sau? Do you see him actually punching David here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nvfCJHyui0

What are you going to do now, compare that to his actual fights and say WSL is not in congruence with WSL?

[EternalSpring]

Tbh, I think PB and WSL kick a$$, and no I'm not of that lineage. That said, youtube/videos are a diff deal imo. PB videos are great, but not anything that another practitioner couldn't do even if their kung fu was average and they were up against someone who was less skilled. It confuses the f*ck out of me when I see random posters criticize other Ving Tsun videos for not being "real fighting" while only posting clips of their Sifus doing chi sao against a student or someone who they know if of a lower skill level.

[GlennR]

There's your problem. Comparing chi-sau practice to fighting.

And heres your problem (or more so Graham and Kevin) that the only clips put up, to prove PB's fighting prowess, are indeed chi sao clips.

[LFJ]

And heres your problem (or more so Graham and Kevin) that the only clips put up, to prove PB's fighting prowess, are indeed chi sao clips.

Chi-sau does show a certain skill, or lack thereof, to a good eye.

[GlennR]

Chi-sau does show a certain skill, or lack thereof, to a good eye.

All down to eye of the beholder then.

So the question is, who's eye carries more weight

[LFJ]

No. Not everyone has a good eye to recognize a fighter's attributes in other exercises, especially if one doesn't undertand the exercise they're watching or what fighting is actually like.

Plenty of hand chasers do a great job playing the stick and follow, "you can't hit me, ah ha, gotcha" game convincing themselves and others that they must be amazing fighters or can even defend themselves.

A good eye is a skilled and experienced eye. One that understands what it sees and knows the reality of fighting.

[GlennR]

No. Not everyone has a good eye to recognize a fighter's attributes in other exercises, especially if one doesn't undertand the exercise they're watching or what fighting is actually like.

Plenty of hand chasers do a great job playing the stick and follow, "you can't hit me, ah ha, gotcha" game convincing themselves and others that they must be amazing fighters or can even defend themselves.

A good eye is a skilled and experienced eye. One that understands what it sees and knows the reality of fighting.

So, if I've had more fights than you my opinion carries more weight?