Wing chun vids share please take 2

[Frost]

Wong Shun Leung had drills for applying po-pais to boxers, very effective.

im sure he did fancy filming them for us going against some boxers at your gym........

[Vajramusti]

Wong Shun Leung had drills for applying po-pais to boxers, very effective.

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Maybe. But you are not WSL and you did not learn from him.

[JPinAZ]

You're not leaving or re-entering the opponent's killing zone at all.

You are if you push him away.

You can't eat punches when the opponent is on the ground,

so simply pushing him away is going to drop him, i dont think so.

or turned away from you, off balance and you're right on him attacking.

You wont be right on him attacking him if you have pushed him away.

My first point was that you don't just push for the heck of it, evening out the advantage. It's not pushing them "away". It depends on the position and is to gain the advantage.

You are assuming that i dont know much about wing chun. I understand perfectly that using an explosive push can be useful its all down to context and the situation you are in. If you are fighting more than one person it might be beneficial to blast an oponent into one of his buddys to buy a little time or into a wall.

You apparently don't have this in your system, but are seeing it in a chi-sau drill and assuming that's how it's used in fighting. Mistake.


You know nothing about me or the system i train in.

Bottom line is, i always favour hitting over pushing, period

Chris is pretty much spot on.

And to all of those egaged in the silly argument over who knows Po Pai - it's embarrassing - please, just stop..

[k gledhill]

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Maybe. But you are not WSL and you did not learn from him.

That doesnt make the techniques any less effective against boxers....maybe ?? please...

[k gledhill]

Chris is pretty much spot on.

And to all of those egaged in the silly argument over who knows Po Pai - it's embarrassing - please, just stop..

I think we can see that you and Chris have a different view of why we use po-pai.
LFJ nailed it.
A common error beginners make when executing po-pai is to shove with upper body in 2 beats with too much force, its easy to 'cut' into the timing....there are drills for just po-paing in a circle to try and make one leave the circle and counter the po-pai and re po-pai back....pretty intense and also very useful for guys who overturn trying to use force or hard blocks, unaware of the centerline values in fighting.

[JPinAZ]

I think we can see that you and Chris have a different view of why we use po-pai.
LFJ nailed it.
A common error beginners make when executing po-pai is to shove with upper body in 2 beats with too much force, its easy to 'cut' into the timing....there are drills for just po-paing in a circle to try and make one leave the circle and counter the po-pai and re po-pai back....pretty intense and also very useful for guys who overturn trying to use force or hard blocks, unaware of the centerline values in fighting.

I wasn't even talking about po pai per se. I was only referring to Chris being correct about the downfalls of unnecessarily 'pushing' people away, which obviously went over your head.

But if you want to argue about who's got the real technique of po pai and who doesn't, feel free

[k gledhill]

I wasn't even talking about po pai per se. I was only referring to Chris being correct about the downfalls of unnecessarily 'pushing' people away, which obviously went over your head.

But if you want to argue about who's got the real technique of po pai and who doesn't, feel free

We are talking about PP, it goes without saying not to just shove a guy away...please.

[JPinAZ]

We are talking about PP, it goes without saying not to just shove a guy away...please.

no, YOU were talking about technique/Po Pai (rediculously at that by arguing who's got the real PP technique and who doesn't ).
I commented to agree with Chris on the theory of why we shouldn't needlessly 'push' people away once you already have them in striking range (po pai or otherwise).

Since you're obviously to blinded by your own need to be right, you've already forgotten how you even got to the silly subject of po pai - it's once you joined the discussion. Before that only 'pushing' was mentioned - and it was only a page or two ago.

Since you've forgotten, here's how it went (I bolded the word push so you don't miss it - please pay attention):

"lop/lop/push videos are repeatedly put up" I love that comment!

Pushing an oponent away so you have to go through the pain of having to bridge again , such a great idea

Bridging is a pain for you? It's the easiest thing in a fight and happens automatically. It's what you do from there.

But anyway, pushing is not just for the heck of it. Done forcefully it slams them into the wall, over chairs, etc.. It's using surroundings. Otherwise a short push breaks their posture and balance and changes their facing while keeping them in your striking range as you continue. Or in chi-sau practice, it can just be to call for a reset, as if they would have been sent rolling down stairs by that point anyway.

I think you may be seeing only the last example and not understanding what it could really be representing and it's potential.

I understand what im looking at, i know how to bridge and im saying that once you have bridged you should stick, pursue and destroy , not push him away.

In a real fight thats a stupid strategy, every time you have to re-enter his killing zone you could eat punches so what im saying is i only want to have to do this once.

You say you understand, and then speak showing you don't...

Read the description I just posted. You're not leaving or re-entering the opponent's killing zone at all. You can't eat punches when the opponent is on the ground, or turned away from you, off balance and you're right on him attacking. My first point was that you don't just push for the heck of it, evening out the advantage. It's not pushing them "away". It depends on the position and is to gain the advantage.

You apparently don't have this in your system, but are seeing it in a chi-sau drill and assuming that's how it's used in fighting. Mistake.

At this point I could now point out how you correcting me makes you sound like more than a bit of a moron, but I'm starting to think you're kinda special and will try to have some pity on you

[jimhalliwell]

To lighten the mood here is some Advanced Chi sau take it guys it takes a deep understanding to do it as good as this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UxDp...JQRR_NNMKOzABT


Cheers Jim

ps not for beginners!! this is the Yip Chun / Yip Ching line at its best !

[EternalSpring]

You're not leaving or re-entering the opponent's killing zone at all.

You are if you push him away.

You can't eat punches when the opponent is on the ground,

so simply pushing him away is going to drop him, i dont think so.

or turned away from you, off balance and you're right on him attacking.

You wont be right on him attacking him if you have pushed him away.

My first point was that you don't just push for the heck of it, evening out the advantage. It's not pushing them "away". It depends on the position and is to gain the advantage.

You are assuming that i dont know much about wing chun. I understand perfectly that using an explosive push can be useful its all down to context and the situation you are in. If you are fighting more than one person it might be beneficial to blast an oponent into one of his buddys to buy a little time or into a wall.

You apparently don't have this in your system, but are seeing it in a chi-sau drill and assuming that's how it's used in fighting. Mistake.


You know nothing about me or the system i train in.

Bottom line is, i always favour hitting over pushing, period

I think the point is that you're not pushing the person "out of striking range." This is the only way that "pushing" would take away your ability to hit.

[k gledhill]

no, YOU were talking about technique/Po Pai (rediculously at that by arguing who's got the real PP technique and who doesn't ).
I commented to agree with Chris on the theory of why we shouldn't needlessly 'push' people away once you already have them in striking range (po pai or otherwise).

Since you're obviously to blinded by your own need to be right, you've already forgotten how you even got to the silly subject of po pai - it's once you joined the discussion. Before that only 'pushing' was mentioned - and it was only a page or two ago.

Since you've forgotten, here's how it went (I bolded the word push so you don't miss it - please pay attention):









At this point I could now point out how you correcting me makes you sound like more than a bit of a moron, but I'm starting to think you're kinda special and will try to have some pity on you

Trying to explain in such length makes me have pity on your need to be correct as you project on me...but we knew you to be an anal retentive already. I know my IQ, you might want to recheck yours before going there.

[JPinAZ]

Trying to explain in such length makes me have pity on your need to be correct as you project on me...but we knew you to be an anal retentive already. I know my IQ, you might want to recheck yours before going there.

Utter garbage.
You win, so I'll just leave you to what you know best: arguing about who got the real technique of Po Pai and giving PB's nutz underdogs.
Later

[k gledhill]

Ignore list is growing, I hope its reciprocal ...anyway ! Back to the clips. Here is a po=pai 'ish clip...

http://youtu.be/xPI46wHJ2lE

[GlennR]

That doesnt make the techniques any less effective against boxers....maybe ?? please...

So youve created a bridge with a boxer and now you want to push him into...... boxing range!

Genius!!!

[Yoshiyahu]

If chi Sao in your lineage is not about the center line why chi sAo then? There are plenty of other ways to develop sensitivity.

Jake104 excellent question...There are different variation of chi sau we utilize but most basic level is not about having your arms in so close no one can slip in...Although I can do both. On the basic level we are taught to be open. So we can feel the holes and learn to still our opponents opening. Later on we learn how to close the holes...Basically what you would call centerline in chi sau...But even when you have your hands close. I can still snake in an Strike your throat...i dont care how good you roll. i can still poke your adams apple if i choose to do so...Also i can still slide in an PE Fist your sternum or diaphram. But i digress. Chi Sao isnt for fighting. We add elements of fighting in entry level sparring. entry level sparring or what we call WC sparring or inclose sparring is not Full sparring or freestyle sparring...its basically where you are allowed to use more elements of the WC an learn how to use them at a close contact with out rolling.


But let me answer your question...Chi sau is about sensitivity. learning how to redirect force, learning how to feel your opponents intent, learning how to trap, control, and grapple while striking simultaneously. Its about learning how to use your elements of Ma Form and Sil Lim Tao...You really don't start seeing elements of Chum Kiu and stepping moves of Sup Yee San Sik until you start doing free movement sparring. Structure is drilled during Partner drills, Gung Lik exercises, and also San Sik drills as well as stationary and free motion sparring. We separate the two sparring and chi sau because we want you to gleam different things from your WC training...Eventually after about a year of training you should be able to freestyle spar...Which is really what matters because WC sparring is cool but its not Freestyle...freestyle sparring means anything goes be it muay thai, kick boxijng, boxing, sand da, WC or what ever....The WC we do is geared towards being able to fight non-wing chun people...So we have a different approach...Our chi sau is softer, more fluent, we are not technique based with chi sau...Its purely free style chi sau. Technique based applications comes from drills and solo practice. Chi Sau for us is about using your natural spirit to conqeror yourself and let go of your will! Follow your oppnent for his intent speaks to you!