27 shot dead in Conneticut school

[Syn7]

Look, it's not like I don't agree with some of your points. I just think the whole pandoras box thing is valid. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. This is the price of technological advancement. I can make a gun with a 3D printer in my home. What do you suggest we do about that? Ban 3d printers? Focus on the Ammo, not the guns. Your solution is there. Not that I can't and don't press my own shells, but I still have to buy the stuff to make it. I don't have a workshop full of mills and molds. But if I did, there would be nothing stopping me. All the stuff I need to make my robots can be used to make weapons instead. Should we outlaw electromechanical engineers from using the tools of their trade too? This is the info age, man. Anyone with an average intelligence can build a laser or fab a gun. It takes practice, but it's not the hardest thing to do. I can make a crude zip gun with household items. Imagine what could be done with the right tools. The same tools used to make all the other gadgets we all feel we need. Look, you getting my point? Banning stuff doesn't make it go away. Drugs take brains and gear to make, all illegal. How is prohibition working out for you?


I disagree with your hunting issues. Using a bow may be "sporting" to some. But it's a shitty way to feed your family. And you know the stuff you buy at safeway is gonna just get worse and worse. We have no idea what these chems will do to the species, yet we push foreword anyways.

Granted, there are irresponsible hunters out there, but for the most part it's pretty safe if you think first shoot second. Not everyone is as useless as Dick Cheney with a gun.

I was raised to handle guns, it's just a part of who I am and where I come from. I learned gun safety as a small child. Never have I had a problem. They are all secure, and they are all trackable. I'm also in the process of designing gps mods for them. They already have RFID tags. Ofcourse I'm the only one who can access that info, but it doesn't have to be that way. I just went above and beyond because I am not retarded!

[Syn7]

Duck Hunters? Use a bow. More skill. Hunters piss me off. Whoever fires a gun in a forest is a dickhead. You can't see through the leaves so you don't know what is behind the thing your shooting at. Its stupid. If there are dangerous animals around, then sure, have a shotgun, two barrels, two shots. Thats enough.

Also, I would rather have bird shot land in my back yard than arrows or bolts. Bird shot is pretty harmless on its way down, unlike actual bullets(depending on the arc). The last thing you want is a bunch up people shooting bows in the air. Trust me!

Not that I don't have issues with hunting in populated areas, but as we have well established already, some people are dumb as fuck!

[RenDaHai]

Look, it's not like I don't agree with some of your points. I just think the whole pandoras box thing is valid. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. This is the price of technological advancement. I can make a gun with a 3D printer in my home. What do you suggest we do about that? Ban 3d printers? Focus on the Ammo, not the guns. Your solution is there. Not that I can't and don't press my own shells, but I still have to buy the stuff to make it. I don't have a workshop full of mills and molds. But if I did, there would be nothing stopping me. All the stuff I need to make my robots can be used to make weapons instead. Should we outlaw electromechanical engineers from using the tools of their trade too? This is the info age, man. Anyone with an average intelligence can build a laser or fab a gun. It takes practice, but it's not the hardest thing to do. I can make a crude zip gun with household items. Imagine what could be done with the right tools. The same tools used to make all the other gadgets we all feel we need. Look, you getting my point? Banning stuff doesn't make it go away. Drugs take brains and gear to make, all illegal. How is prohibition working out for you?

Yeah, i do get your points.

And where there is a will there is a way. I reckon I can make a pipe gun in my garage.

But it takes a lot of effort. If you ban guns you will still get the crazy psychos but with their home made kit they won't kill as many. And what it will stop is the heat of the moment shootings. People using a gun in a road rage incident, shooting a guy over an argument, etc. It will be more exclusive to higher level planned crimes.

I realise there will be some parts of the states where there are dangerous wild animals or on farms where there are foxes eating your chickens or where you can actually hunt regularly enough to live on. Yeah, maybe some guns should be allowed for this kind of thing, but specialised ones, location specific and highly regulated.

Its just the best way to go. For the public consciousness, for the message, for the cultural imprinting, guns need to be illegal and everyone needs to understand why.

We already live in a culture where we don't all have the same rights. I don't have the right to prescribe medicine or make an arrest and nor should I. Some rights are privileges which need to be earned. A gun is such an extreme thing that we should make people demonstrate their responsibility before letting them have one.

[Syn7]

Motivating assholes to learn more destructive methods is not a cure.

Let's say this guy had no guns so instead he made a Molotov incendiary with a napalm reserve and lobbed it into a classroom. Or into the school bus. It would have been a lot worse. Especially if he is willing to die along with everyone else, which was clearly the case here. This was a general revenge fantasy coupled with a massive case of depression.

Who can't find a bottle, gas, benzene, polystyrene and a rag? Lil kids make these things in their back yards all the time. Add thermite and magnesium strips and you have something very ugly and very EASY to make. How do you erase that knowledge? You can't. Surely an adult wouldn't need to put much thought into making a good one. The instructions are even in wikipedia!

I have no issue with regulation. Well, not all, but some anyways. By all means, close the gunshow loopholes. Make psych profiling mandatory at the expense of the purchaser by qualified professionals who specialize in this field, and make it a longer process. If you need a gun for whatever reason, surely you can put in the year or so it should take to get one. Also make federally certified firearms courses mandatory. You must pass the exams and you can only apply once every 5 years. You fail, you wait 5 years before you can try again. There are all sorts of ways to go about it. I would also like to point out that in Canada the household per gun ratio is VERY high and yet we don't have anywhere near the problem you have. Granted many of these guns are long guns, but make no mistake, you can take a tone of people out with a semi-auto rifle whether it looks like an m-16 or an wooden hunting rifle. Same mechanics. And by all means, remove all semi-auto bursts and fully auto weapons from civilians. Not that a conversion is that hard, but atleast it would keep dumb people from spraying crowds. Also I have no issue with limiting mag sizes. If you are legit, no reason why can't just have extra mags. No need for these huge drums and extra long hadgun clips.

Again, I have no issue with strict requirements. Just not so strict that you have to be security, law enforcement, military or a rural farmer to have one.

[Syn7]

Yeah, i do get your points.

And where there is a will there is a way. I reckon I can make a pipe gun in my garage.

You can make a devastating pipe BOMB in your garage. With household items. You can even make a pressure bomb with shrapnel, baking soda, vinegar, a pipe, sealant and a small jar! It's common knowledge. We teach our children how to do it in science class in grade school. They simply need to think it thru a bit more to make the volcano a bomb instead.

I wouldn't be typing these formulas if they weren't easily accessible common knowledge. Trust me, there are many other ways to do damage that I will not be discussing here. A guy who makes even hobby rockets can make a devastating bomb. Not to mention that fireworks are a great source of materials that are otherwise illegal or hard to acquire without a license. Try buying Potassium Nitrate without ending up on some no fly list!!! But I can go buy fireworks down the street. Silly.

[Sardinkahnikov]

This information is available. We even have while not confirmed, but shown pretty strongly, that we can figure this out right down to a biochemical level.

That's interesting, could you indicate me some articles, if you remember any especific one?

As to gun control, it seems like an obvious measure. To me it seems the objective of the murderer was not to simply kill children, but exercising some sort of power, even if a malevolant one, in his society, a necessity brought upon by genetic factors, their social manifestations and the resulting psychological syndrome. He probably wanted people to know that he was the one who did it, that he could and did destroy their lives. Whatever social neglect or lack of love he perceived in his life was apparently worse than infamy, I suspect.

However, if people don't really push lawmakers to do it, such prohibition will hardly take place in the USA. Between gun industry lobbyist, compromising scumbag senators and moronic gun owners, the probably congress won't create any drastic gun control law anytime soon.

The 2nd amendment may have been written as a means to give the common people a lawful defense against tiranny, but, frankly, do you see any modern day american average citzen fighting "tiranny" or any sort of agression from the central government, gun in hands? Most people want to have guns because they feel like they have a second pen1s when they have an assault rifle in their hands.

[bawang]

To what end? Some sort of rural agricultural plan for back home?

gonna do reseaerch for kellogs

[Syn7]

The 2nd amendment may have been written as a means to give the common people a lawful defense against tiranny, but, frankly, do you see any modern day american average citzen fighting "tiranny" or any sort of agression from the central government, gun in hands? Most people want to have guns because they feel like they have a second pen1s when they have an assault rifle in their hands.

If pushed far enough, yeah, I do think people would fight for freedom. You don't need guns to hurt people. You don't need guns to hurt many people really quick. Just opportunity and some thought. Removing guns would simply change the focus of deranged lunatics who wanna kill kids. You can kill 20 kids without much effort. It's just a fact of life. Focus on the social issues that make people do these things and you will be on the right path. Short of profiling kids in some Orwellian fashion, there isn't much you can do about seemingly normal people who snap like that. The best we can do is educate people on how to handle themselves in dangerous situations and work on the things that make people go crazy like this. It's no coincidence that it's usually a 20-30 year old white male. Clearly the shifting demographics and the polarization of wealth are making a huge negative impact on the social classes that have been dominant in the past. I'm not saying it's bad that white men are no longer lords, I'm just saying the psychological effect of reality and the bubble are causing harm in many way. It's mostly because many of us lie to ourselves and to eachother. It all matters,whether you're talking about gang warfare or some idiot whiteboy shooting up his school!


We have so many examples since the beginning of civilization of showing governors turning on the people. But no, I'm just stupid. Everything is so different now from every other example in the history of mankind! No really, we've all changed. We are good and nice now. 50 thousand years of war and killing ended in a handful of generations, yeah that holds up!!! So I'm just gonna cut my nuttz off, put on a collar and be a good lil rank and file citizen. Coz as long as I'm fed and warm who cares! Do you really not see the parallels between what is happening today and all the prior examples of government misconduct ending in violent revolution?

Most of you walk around with no less than 3 rfid chips, two of which you probably aren't even aware of, and have no idea have they even work or just how vulnerable they are to abuse. Not just from a government, but from anybody. I can steal your info off your rfid devices within a four meter distance. A sniffer is an easy tool to make and use. You don't need to be oppressed, you are doing it to yourselves.

You are right tho, many get big weapons to feel cool. But a reasonable screening involving check and balances with psych profiles should weed most of these people out. Also, there is no need for any citizen to have a giant fifty cal in their garage. I mean, there are limits ofcourse.


Also, the statement "It's easier to get a gun than it is to get healthcare in the US" speaks VOLUMES!. Not about gun control so much, but about how the US places very little emphasis on mental health and the negative stigma attached to that conversation. Maybe had the USA placed a proper amount of emphasis on mental health 60 years ago when it should have, you wouldn't be in this lil quagmire! Never too late to start. More people have mental health issues than not. It's time to address this reality with an open and honest discussion about the negative and POSITIVE aspects of mental health. Not just talking head sound bites from cable news stations! Nodding and saying "oh yes, we should work on that" is NOT a solution. Man up already.

[Syn7]

[Drake]

Speculation about an oppression that isn't happening. Meanwhile, people are dying every day.

The box is already open.

[Syn7]

The box is already open.

What, exactly, do you mean by that?

[rett]

In the mid 1800s the USA still had slavery. And the rest of the civilized world shook their heads. In this regard the USA, an amazing and vibrant and innovative country that I admire with every bone in my body, was an embarrassment.

Defenders of slavery put forward all kinds of specious arguments in favor of their barbaric dehumanizing exploitation: including the fact that slaves are mentioned in the Constitution.

Now the USA is shackled with another anachronistic relic: liberal gun laws that put extremely destructive weapons in the hands of crazy people. And the rest of the civilized world are shaking their heads and tut tutting with all right.

Defenders of guns are putting forward flawed arguments based on things like the second amendment (which doesn't apply to a modern social context or to modern semi-automatic weapons) and defending yourself from the "gubment" and "dem d@mn revenuers" (yeah, good luck fighting the government).

The self-defence argument and "only criminals will have guns" are also flawed. Liberal gun laws are like a destructive spiral. The surroundings become more dangerous, so decent folk feel they need guns to counter it, which makes more and more powerful guns available, which makes the environment more dangerous. And so on.

[Syn7]

In the mid 1800s the USA still had slavery. And the rest of the civilized world shook their heads. In this regard the USA, an amazing and vibrant and innovative country that I admire with every bone in my body, was an embarrassment.

Defenders of slavery put forward all kinds of specious arguments in favor of their barbaric dehumanizing exploitation: including the fact that slaves are mentioned in the Constitution.

Now the USA is shackled with another anachronistic relic: liberal gun laws that put extremely destructive weapons in the hands of crazy people. And the rest of the civilized world are shaking their heads and tut tutting with all right.

Defenders of guns are putting forward flawed arguments based on things like the second amendment (which doesn't apply to a modern social context or to modern semi-automatic weapons) and defending yourself from the "gubment" and "dem d@mn revenuers" (yeah, good luck fighting the government).

The self-defence argument and "only criminals will have guns" are also flawed. Liberal gun laws are like a destructive spiral. The surroundings become more dangerous, so decent folk feel they need guns to counter it, which makes more and more powerful guns available, which makes the environment more dangerous. And so on.

In Canada there are approx. 3 guns per household on average. Yet we have significantly lower gun murders, murders in general. What we don't have are high powered automatic rifles and conceal and carry permits are not given out easily. Something to think about. And they found a LAW on the highway by my house. So clearly we do have these high powered weapons, just not legally. Still, lower murder rates. Why? We are more tolerant, have better access to health care and generally have(had maybe) a bigger percentage of middle class. Less racialized ghettos, less prisons, less authoritarian abuse. Shall I go on? If the amount of guns was relative to the murder rate then Switzerland, Israel and Norway would have murder rates similar to the US, and places like Ireland, Scotland, Mexico, Jamaica, Bermuda, Bahamas and Sri Lanka would have low rates. But guess what? Not so.


Now don't get me wrong here, Canada has 30.8 guns per 100 residents whereas the US has 88. So clearly you have more guns. Infact the most guns of anywhere in the world. But outright prohibition has never been the answer. I can't think of any case of prohibition that actually worked as advertised. Get rid of crazy guns, eliminate semi burst and full auto, regulate ammunition like a motherfucker and crackdown on manufacturers and dealers using weak laws or loopholes to pump these things out in such numbers. And considering the gun culture in the US, not unlike alcohol, prohibition would create massive black arms markets and trafficking would become significantly more profitable. And you still have like millions of illegal guns making the rounds, guns that are not reasonable. Like submachine guns and fully auto rifles with all the extras.


The 2nd amendment isn't the route I would take to justify a position against prohibition, but it was brought up so I covered that. Complacency is a bitch tho. Most people don't know they are being screwed till it's over. But then IMO, you guys need to make a shit ton of amendments in many areas. It's not a bible, update or fail, up to you.

Most of my social views are progressive, my economic views are more centrist but mos def left to YOUR center. But on this, I just don't see prohibition as an answer. Look at what all the other prohibitions have done to your country. Alcohol, drugs, gambling. They all ended up creating powerful criminals. Prohibition simply doesn't work when enough people want whatever is being denied. And trust me, MILLIONS of Americans will by illegal guns with NO regulations if you outright ban them. Toughen up the regs if you have to, in some cases you don't even enforce your own rules. By all means, get on that. But don't go too far or it will be ugly for you.

Can anyone give me an example of a country wide successful prohibition on anything that enough people weren't willing to give up voluntarily? I can't think of one. But I can go on for hours about the ones I do know about and all the unforseen negative impacts. Knee jerk reactions aren't the right way to do this. And it's gonna talke a LONG time for you to change your cultural values.

[RenDaHai]

But Prohibition of guns DOES work. It works in a lot of places.

Guns are not an addictive substance like alcohol, drugs or gambling.

Most people want them because people want to feel safe. Some want them because they were born with the genetic defect 'tiny penis'.

Now if there are fewer guns around they will feel safer and you eliminate the need. They will certainly feel less safe if they have an illegal weapon in their house.

Ban guns, do research into affordable penis enlargement. job done.



Also, on the death statistics above... that says guns are second largest cause of intentional death. All the others are unintentional. That doesn't help your cause.

[rett]

I'm not advocating outright prohibition of firearms. Just the kinds of licensing and oversight procedures common in European countries, coupled with police measures to reduce the availability of illegal weapons. That means no assault rifles, period, (you might as well let private citizens buy claymore mines) and that it is quite difficult to get a handgun.

Hunters and other persons with legitimate reasons to need firearms should still be able to have them, subject to training and background checks.