27 shot dead in Conneticut school

[Lucas]

just the other day at the clackamas town centre near me, there was a guy who unloaded 60 rounds from an assault rifle...luckily he was a very bad shot, he killed 2 people as apposed to the ammount that could have been killed in that attack. He killed himself as well.

[GeneChing]

...on the Dark Knight Rises thread.

[Faruq]

This sickening trend. I think I remember an "expert" last year or the year before stating that in every case up to that point where a student (below University level) had been the shooter, he had been bullied. But this year it's been adults so many times. I mean how do we stop something when we can't even agree on what it's caused by? How many times has this happened this year alone? God, what do we do?

[Syn7]

This sickening trend. I mean how do we stop something we can't agree on what it's caused by? How many times has this happened this year alone? God, what do we do?

Does anyone disagree that poor mental health, a slashed then slashed again then again and again mental health budget. The fact that most of the regs aren't enforced very well and the significant lack of general oversight is a huge part of the problem?

[SoCo KungFu]

I got you. Agreed.

And you can be addicted to cold steel. You can show compulsive tendencies with anything, really. And addiction is not purely medical. It also has many social factors. And I don't buy the whole disease argument. Defect, sure, disease, hell naw! And a defect is no guarantee either way. And not having the defect is not a guarantee either way. But your biggest hurdle is tradition, habit etc.... Not an easy task.

Guns are dangerous and can be misused in horrible ways. They also make it easier to take down a crowd. Won't get an argument from me over that. Totally agree. And if you were a diff country I may think prohibition was a good idea. But you aren't. You are the US and you are deep in it. Just look north to Canada, whats so different? Because we only have an average of 3 guns per home? How many do you need to kill? Your 88 per 100 is insane high, but basically means some people have MANY guns. Try to ban them, see what happens.

If you really were determined to ban them outright, it would have to be a slow process. A generational thing. I can dig that. As long as I can keep mine(the safest stored guns in my area I'm sure) I'm cool. I don't have a bunch of handguns and silencers. I have no fully auto or semi auto bursts. Just rifles, shotgun, and a few old roscoes. And that all I'm willing to admit to

If you register and chip all your legal guns, that will help a lot. Of course you can take out a chip, but it would still help in locating and confirming some things. I amade rfid tags for mine and they aren't be obvious or visible and only I have the code. So if somehow they did go missing, I can track them via GPS AND RFID. The gps part is the hardest part, not done. I like chipping things(and people). My kids will have chips on them in random locations at all times. Of course I will be the on,y one to monitor them. IF something bad happened then I would relay the sequence to law enforcement.

Compulsive tendencies are not addiction. Addiction is a physiological change, such as destruction of dopamine receptors (which is largely why addicts relapse before cellular receptors can return to base levels). Addiction is very much a medical condition.

As for abnormal/psychotic behavior, see oxytocin, oxytocin receptor abnormalities (such as oxytocin receptor polymorphism). I wasn't just pulling words out my ass earlier. These are real things and while not concrete, show a strong indication to the chemical manifestation of "social" behavior. I'll ask again because no body seems to respond. What will we as a society do with that information? You guys up north have all that health care. We don't have that luxury here. Something is going to have to give. But I don't see treatment curbing the tide anytime soon. Assuming we can even get it instilled. Heck, right now there's a republican governor trying to cut public health funding for the mentally ill in his state budget.

I don't think banning guns will work. I support a mix of what Japan and a few Euro nations have done. A mix of various increased controls, random inspections from public officials, mandatory safety courses (in Japan its a week long and you have to pay to attend, not some little day camp crap) and proof of intent to use. Blue prints have to be provided to city officials outlining where in the house the weapon is stored and ammo must be stored separately. Stronger measures than that....I'd say banning sale of ammo to civilians or taxing the crap out of it. Not possession, just distribution. And production can only be on gov't contract. If you can make your own, ok. Most can't or are too lazy to do so. And in a couple decades no one will care either way. In this way, people can still have what they need for self defense, but you blow through your stock at an ammo range or hunting, tough ****. Self defense, when smart, you shouldn't ever have to draw your gun anyways. The only issue is rounds corroding over time. Criminals will still do what they do for about 20 years or so. When those supplies run out, then they'll have to find something else. Considering the alternatives are so much less lethal that's fine with me.

This doesn't take away from the social responsibilities. Its about using all of the above. That's what successful Euro countries have done. And I'm not naive enough to think people will just start becoming responsible. It would be great if the world worked that way, but its not. People don't account for their guns and so we have to have a way as a society to control for their failures.

[Faruq]

Does anyone disagree that poor mental health, a slashed then slashed again then again and again mental health budget. The fact that most of the regs aren't enforced very well and the significant lack of general oversight is a huge part of the problem?

You're right Syn

[Sardinkahnikov]

Controlling access to guns would help alot. Even if it could reinforce the black market, the types that usually conduct those mass murderers - socially isolated and psichologically disturbed young men - probably wouldn't easily make contact with shady characters who sell illegals guns.

Another factor that comes to mind as possibly important is the lack of proper PARENTING. If parents could bother to pay more attention to their children and their problems, intead of pretending everything is fine, the risk factors could be eased.

[Syn7]

Compulsive tendencies are not addiction. Addiction is a physiological change, such as destruction of dopamine receptors (which is largely why addicts relapse before cellular receptors can return to base levels). Addiction is very much a medical condition.

As for abnormal/psychotic behavior, see oxytocin, oxytocin receptor abnormalities (such as oxytocin receptor polymorphism). I wasn't just pulling words out my ass earlier. These are real things and while not concrete, show a strong indication to the chemical manifestation of "social" behavior. I'll ask again because no body seems to respond. What will we as a society do with that information? You guys up north have all that health care. We don't have that luxury here. Something is going to have to give. But I don't see treatment curbing the tide anytime soon. Assuming we can even get it instilled. Heck, right now there's a republican governor trying to cut public health funding for the mentally ill in his state budget.

I don't think banning guns will work. I support a mix of what Japan and a few Euro nations have done. A mix of various increased controls, random inspections from public officials, mandatory safety courses (in Japan its a week long and you have to pay to attend, not some little day camp crap) and proof of intent to use. Blue prints have to be provided to city officials outlining where in the house the weapon is stored and ammo must be stored separately. Stronger measures than that....I'd say banning sale of ammo to civilians or taxing the crap out of it. Not possession, just distribution. And production can only be on gov't contract. If you can make your own, ok. Most can't or are too lazy to do so. And in a couple decades no one will care either way. In this way, people can still have what they need for self defense, but you blow through your stock at an ammo range or hunting, tough ****. Self defense, when smart, you shouldn't ever have to draw your gun anyways. The only issue is rounds corroding over time. Criminals will still do what they do for about 20 years or so. When those supplies run out, then they'll have to find something else. Considering the alternatives are so much less lethal that's fine with me. Clearly irresponsible gun ownership for protection can backfire real bad. Just look at this what happened to this *******s mom. Killed with her own gun. And clearly not secured properly. She was a gun nut who died for her ignorance. So while I understand self defense issues, I do not recommend anyone purchasing a firearm without copious amounts of knowledge and understanding. The problem isn't too many guns(to an extent anyways, yall a bit overboard) it's too many guns in the hands of unqualified morons. You may also try screening soldiers better when they come home. "Oh he's a soldier, he knows gun safety" is ridiculous. Especially when back from a tour or three!

This doesn't take away from the social responsibilities. Its about using all of the above. That's what successful Euro countries have done. And I'm not naive enough to think people will just start becoming responsible. It would be great if the world worked that way, but its not. People don't account for their guns and so we have to have a way as a society to control for their failures.

No doubt you make some great points. And for the record, I said addiction isn't just a medical issue. But what I should have said, and meant, is that it isn't just a physiological problem. As far as the rest of the addiction info, no disagreements here.

Japan isn't the greatest example. Their stats are outright lies. They are selective with what they term homicide and what they term murder, and usually it has more to do with how good a chance they feel they have at solving the case. 95% success rate my ass.


Otherwise, I totally agree about the ammo part. Think back to when bubble printers where the shit. Then scanners came out and even though we had all seen a zerox machine, this was an amazing innovation to have at home. Most people who aren't into tech advances didn't see it coming. Same with 3D printers. It won't be long before we all have them. People will have the ability to manufacture arms in the home. They already do, it's just not very good yet. The printed prototypes typically are a one use deal. But that will change. Soon we will be printing metals and composites on the desktop. We will even be able to print shell casings to press our own ammo. But then you still need a bit of knowledge for that one. Charred cellulose, sulfur and potassium nitrate aren't THAT hard to get. The salt peter is getting hard, but there are ways around it. So really, the cat is out of the bag. I would also like to point out the MAJOR diff between a responsible knowledgeable gun owner and some douche who buys a .45 without any training at all. The reason why I am so careful and accountable with firearms is because I knew how to handle them, dis and reassemble them, clean them, use them, before I was 6. Grampa had a "kids gun" for learning. Obviously I wasn't using a 30/30. It was a .22 semi automatic rifle. We all knew how to carry and store them properly. How to always check the chamber and remove tha magazine when not in use. How to carry it so that it has little chance of firing and even if it did it would be facing the least harmful direction, which is typically a few feet infront of you. How to carry a loaded gun with a jacked round while waiting for use. All these things are needed. You need to make people take full courses before even considering their applications. And not just stupid day courses. Like a handful of weekends or something. And an exhaustive psych profile with dynamic back checks. Sworn statements with massive penalties for perjury.

The culture is DEEPLY entrenched. I think the solutions I have outlined like ten times would be more than enough. But I don't think any solution will fix this today. It's gonna take time and it's all on you.

And it's nice to see that the knee jerk ban all guns solution isn't being thrown around as much anymore.

One thing I would like to mention is the spill over of American values across international lines. SO tell me, what does the US have that Canada doesn't but should have? We don't really NEED eachother for very much. But proximity is changing us too. I, and many other Canadians , and people all over the world, would greatly appreciate if you people would start cleaning up the mess in your own backyard before it ruins ours. Bring home some of the resources you use to show everyone how special and right you are and deal with your shit. Please! The US is significantly bringing down the value of the hood, so to speak. And stay the fuck out of our politics. Not that we can't talk, just your lobbyists can eat a dick.

[Lucas]

Don't sell guns at walmart...

[Lucas]

Mental health is a huge issue. Obviously every single person commiting these crimes are mentally un healthy. That is without question. Spotting the early warning signs, dealing with them appropriately, having access to proper resources, having anyone who even gives a **** and is willing to act, etc.

I'm a cold hearted ******* though. I don't put much into mental health rehabilitation. Sure it can work but how often do you think it works for people who are at the point of mass murder?

If this was a herd, those people would be the first to be left to the wolves.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Just an FYI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

[GeneChing]

...but I just couldn't resist posting this here.

Police to question Jackie Chan on gun claims
Wednesday, 19 December, 2012, 12:00am
Simpson Cheung simpson.cheung@scmp.com

Police are to question action movie star Jackie Chan over his claim that he once used "guns and grenades" to fend off triad members.

The actor made the claim in the same interview with a mainland magazine in which he controversially suggested the government restrict Hong Kong people's freedom to demonstrate.

Chan said he and other actors used to be bullied by triad members, who used guns to threaten them and extort money.

"In the past, when they bullied me, I hid in the United States. They opened fire at me once I got off the aeroplane. From that moment on, I needed to carry a gun every day when I went out. When I returned to Hong Kong and ate outside, more than 20 people surrounded me with melon knives," he said.

"I pulled out a gun, and had two more concealed. I told them they had been going too far and that I had been hiding from them. Later on, I confronted them with two guns and six grenades," he was quoted as saying.

He did not elaborate on when the events happened and how the confrontations ended. Chan did not say if he still carries a gun when going out.

Chan also condoned some forms of robbery.

"As long as there are people, there are thieves," he said. "If you can get away with gold from HSBC without hurting anyone, that's wonderful, and I think you are a genius. But it is unforgivable to injure anyone if you hold hostages."

A police spokesman said they would follow up on the remarks. A source said officers were trying to contact Chan.

Barrister Albert Luk Wai-hung said it would be difficult for police to collect evidence, as Chan could be making up the claims.

"Even if he says he had guns, or even if somebody saw them, it would not be enough. There would have to be proof they were real," he said.

Possession of firearms without a licence can bring penalties of up to 14 years' in jail.

Chan could not be reached for comment.

[Raipizo]

...but I just couldn't resist posting this here.

I think he's getting a little crazy in his old age.

[Syn7]

...but I just couldn't resist posting this here.

I believe him. You can only be pushed so far. And triads are like flies on shit. If they think they found a good score, they will try to get all they can until they have a reason to stop. Most triads are low level urchins doing what they have to do to get by. Not much unlike every other gangs we have to worry about. On average, most don't make much money selling drugs. So they do what they can. Don't get me wrong, some people make millions, of course. But most of the people are street level and they fight all sorts of problems. They get robbed, go to jail, get high of their own stuff. So robbing a famous actor starts to seem like a great idea.

[Syn7]

http://news.yahoo.com/utah-boy-charg...023430546.html


Just........ wow.
























WOW!