27 shot dead in Conneticut school

[MightyB]

You say we need to stop arguing about guns, but the problem, is that is the very decision we need to be coming to terms with. Will it stop this from happening? No, these people are defective (whether its genetically, environmentally, whatever) and that will always be a component of society. But you know, its a lot more difficult to go slashing up 26 people than it is to shoot. We need to decide if that is enough means to mitigate the damage these people inflict on society. Because its pretty obvious what we are (not) doing at the moment isn't working.

The simple truth is that it's just as easy to hunt bigger game with a muzzle loader as it is with an AR15.

I think a simple solution would be to go back to a 3 round chamber limit. There's no real legitimate reason for an honest civilian to need more than that in their gun.

[Syn7]

We need to explore the cause. Not just ban guns. Not just damage control. You don't need a gun to kill people. You can use all sorts of creative things to hurt people. You can make chemical weapons out of basic cleaning supplies, so many type of bombs out of regular items. So what, we ban all cleaners? Seems kinda silly.

Too bad one of the teachers didn't have a conceal and carry. Couldve ended this alot quicker.

I like the Swiss approach.

[Syn7]

this happens when gun is allowed in a non martial culture.

Fair point, but not all Americans are non martial. Some are in a constant state of war.

[Syn7]

The simple truth is that it's just as easy to hunt bigger game with a muzzle loader as it is with an AR15.

I think a simple solution would be to go back to a 3 round chamber limit. There's no real legitimate reason for an honest civilian to need more than that in their gun.

Unless you have it for self defense. Then limited rounds suuuuuck!

Not that I feel the need to have an AR, but the simple truth is that I can build things that would do more faster. So really, kind of a moot point to IMO. I'm not gonna talk about HOW in an open forum, but let's just say it's not hard to make chem weapons or large explosives out of regular products. Can't ban everything dangerous.

[MightyB]

We need to explore the cause.

Social erosion to multiply the wealth of our modern aristocracy.


*cut social programs and community mental health.

*cut education.

*cut adequate access to healthcare and affordable medication.

*eliminate middle class jobs.

*promote wealth and excess constantly on television creating unattainable goals and role models for the vast majority of people.

[MightyB]

Unless you have it for self defense. Then limited rounds suuuuuck!

This little weapon only holds 5 rounds and is considered by many to be the perfect home self defense weapon.

Taurus Judge

[Syn7]

This little weapon only holds 5 rounds and is considered by many to be the perfect home self defense weapon.

Taurus Judge

depends on what you're defending against. 5 rounds isn't enough sometimes. That being said, I'm sure even a double barrel 12 would be enough in most home defense scenarios.

It is nice to have a gun that wont jam on ya tho.

[MightyB]

depends on what you're defending against. 5 rounds isn't enough sometimes. That being said, I'm sure even a double barrel 12 would be enough in most home defense scenarios.

Do you live on the path of the raging Huns? Or the Mongolian Horde?

[SoCo KungFu]

Its not about controlling behavior or guns ( you can't control both), its about understanding what drives people and how we can better condition them/us so that life has far too much value than to think that taking it is an option.

This information is available. We even have while not confirmed, but shown pretty strongly, that we can figure this out right down to a biochemical level. Everything you are as a human being, is the expression of a continuous set of chemical interactions. Like I said, what will you do with this information? The reality is, you have little in the way of options. You're not going to be able to teach everyone to be moral. And frankly, some people are simply biologically incapable of "moral" behavior. What then?

People have been praying to some god or another for at least 40,000 years. Hasn't worked.

People have been trying to medicate behavior for over 100 years now. Hasn't worked.

People have been screaming for public awareness, to see the warning signs in our loved ones. Obviously from this, it hasn't worked.

We already know a great deal about what makes people do the things they do. Maybe not in the general public, but on an academic level we have a decent if incomplete picture. Certainly we know enough to begin making informed decisions on such matters. But we aren't stepping up and doing so. We aren't going to change the way some people behave or the decisions they make. All we can do is try to mitigate the damages.

[Syn7]

Social erosion to multiply the wealth of our modern aristocracy.


*cut social programs and community mental health.

*cut education.

*cut adequate access to healthcare and affordable medication.

*eliminate middle class jobs.

*promote wealth and excess constantly on television creating unattainable goals and role models for the vast majority of people.

An oversimplification, but a good start, I guess. Although I think the last one is most relevant.

[SoCo KungFu]

Can't ban everything dangerous.

Don't need to. There's a difference between fabricating a weapon and purchasing something already configured to do great harm. Not everyone has the ability to produce a bomb or the like. And we already track purchase of such chemicals. It doesn't stop everyone, but nothing will stop everyone. Its about making it as difficult as possible to do so and making it as obvious as possible to the people who can prevent it from going all the way.

And you didn't say it, but as far as blades are concerned, anyone taking the argument that they'll just use a knife is failing at reason. There's absolutely no way anyone can rationally consider a blade on par with a projectile weapon in terms of scope of possible damage potential. That argument instantly tells me someone isn't thinking logically.

[Syn7]

Don't need to. There's a difference between fabricating a weapon and purchasing something already configured to do great harm. Not everyone has the ability to produce a bomb or the like. And we already track purchase of such chemicals. It doesn't stop everyone, but nothing will stop everyone. Its about making it as difficult as possible to do so and making it as obvious as possible to the people who can prevent it from going all the way.

And you didn't say it, but as far as blades are concerned, anyone taking the argument that they'll just use a knife is failing at reason. There's absolutely no way anyone can rationally consider a blade on par with a projectile weapon in terms of scope of possible damage potential. That argument instantly tells me someone isn't thinking logically.

I can make a chem weapon with chems from the grocery store. These are not tracked like some people seem to think. Sure, if I bought a truckload of ammonium nitrate, it would be noticed. But all that isn't needed.


Anyone can build what I'm talking about. A simple google search is all you need to learn.

I am so tired of having my freedoms **** on for the "safety" of the public. You can't even make your own nitrocellulose anymore without ending up on some freakin list. It's weak and the wrong approach. There will be no overnight legal solution. It took a few hundred years to dig this mess of a hole. Don't expect it to be cleared up i your lifetime. Ya done ****ed up from the get go.


No I didn't say it..... BUT, you don't think somebody could walk into a classroom, block the exit and slowly but surely machete their way thru a crowd of people who are ****ing themselves? Granted a gun makes it easier, but a determined killer will kill. Now if the teacher had a conceal and carry, whole diff story.

It may be too late for the swiss model to work for the US, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a better way to go about it.

[wenshu]

I can make a chem weapon with chems from the grocery store. These are not tracked like some people seem to think. Sure, if I bought a truckload of ammonium nitrate, it would be noticed. But all that isn't needed.

But you can't make a chemical explosive or buy it ready made without going through a great deal of time and effort.

A twentysomething, neurochemically imbalanced asshole isn't going have the ability to concentrate for long enough to go all Walter White on an elementary school.

[bawang]

I can make a chem weapon with chems from the grocery store. These are not tracked like some people seem to think. Sure, if I bought a truckload of ammonium nitrate, it would be noticed. But all that isn't needed.


Anyone can build what I'm talking about. A simple google search is all you need to learn.

I am so tired of having my freedoms **** on for the "safety" of the public. You can't even make your own nitrocellulose anymore without ending up on some freakin list. It's weak and the wrong approach. There will be no overnight legal solution. It took a few hundred years to dig this mess of a hole. Don't expect it to be cleared up i your lifetime. Ya done ****ed up from the get go.


No I didn't say it..... BUT, you don't think somebody could walk into a classroom, block the exit and slowly but surely machete their way thru a crowd of people who are ****ing themselves? Granted a gun makes it easier, but a determined killer will kill. Now if the teacher had a conceal and carry, whole diff story.

It may be too late for the swiss model to work for the US, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a better way to go about it.

there is no reason for civilians to carry military grade weapons.

You know, that's not the first time I've heard that.

i think also low impulse control + ease of use

a paraplegic old woman with down siyndrom with a single assault rifle can kill an entire battalion of mongol warriors. i think firearms are too powerful to give to just anyone.

[wenshu]

If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.