27 shot dead in Conneticut school

[Syn7]

there is no reason for civilians to carry military grade weapons.


i think also low impulse control + ease of use

a paraplegic old woman with down siyndrom with a single assault rifle can kill an entire battalion of mongol warriors. i think firearms are too powerful to give to just anyone.

Carry or own? Nobody is allowed to walk around with an AR. A .22 revolver could have ended this sooner, that's all I'm sayin.



Wenshu, I dunno bout that man. I think they just choose the path of least resistance. And buying a gun is easier than mixing chemicals. Chemistry is easy. Safe chemistry is harder. But then some nut job making mustard gas isn't gonna worry too much about any sort of safety protocol.

[Syn7]

If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

If you are ****ed off and wanting to cause harm, you will cause harm.

[SoCo KungFu]

I can make a chem weapon with chems from the grocery store. These are not tracked like some people seem to think. Sure, if I bought a truckload of ammonium nitrate, it would be noticed. But all that isn't needed.


Anyone can build what I'm talking about. A simple google search is all you need to learn.

I am so tired of having my freedoms **** on for the "safety" of the public. You can't even make your own nitrocellulose anymore without ending up on some freakin list. It's weak and the wrong approach. There will be no overnight legal solution. It took a few hundred years to dig this mess of a hole. Don't expect it to be cleared up i your lifetime. Ya done ****ed up from the get go.


No I didn't say it..... BUT, you don't think somebody could walk into a classroom, block the exit and slowly but surely machete their way thru a crowd of people who are ****ing themselves? Granted a gun makes it easier, but a determined killer will kill. Now if the teacher had a conceal and carry, whole diff story.

It may be too late for the swiss model to work for the US, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a better way to go about it.

Switzerland has a homicide rate of Germany, Italy and Spain; all far larger countries at that. The Swiss model is nothing special considering Norway has a lower rate and Finland and Netherlands are comparible in terms of both per capita and actual numbers. And all those nations have strict laws.

Of course I could mention Japan as well. Hell even China has a lower per capita rate than the US. But I won't since its a totally different culture....

A determined killer will kill. But a killer with a knife can be subdued by a couple motivated adults. You know, that's what stopped that last plane from smacking another building in '01. A gun? Good luck with that. The comparison is moronic on all levels and frankly deserves no more response.

You're not "free" to do a lot of things. If I really wanted to get pseudo-philosophical I could argue you aren't really free to do anything. Sometimes in the interest of society we have to make those choices. You say its the wrong approach, that its weak. I say statistics have ****ed that argument and its cowardly to run from the issue on excuses. But hey, there's plenty of people who take that approach in this country, they're call republicans. And they're all crying today about why this **** keeps happening.

There's a lot to be done in terms of social issues that can address a lot of this. Its ridiculous that for some people in this country its harder to earn a honest buck than it is by force. That needs to be fixed. But there's a huge difference between that type of violence and this here. Its not about a few hundred years of culture, its a matter of about 60 some odd million years of mammalian evolution. We know what kinds of things cause this crap. I'm telling you, you're not going to change this behavior, not in the culture we have in the US.

[bawang]

If you are ****ed off and wanting to cause harm, you will cause harm.

if you have inferior weapons to cause harm, you will cause less harm.

in ancient times killing more than 10 people is unheard of. that requires superhuman ability. a gun gives you the equivalent of superhuman powers. it can turn the weakest coward into a god.

[RenDaHai]

No, look, you really need to ban guns.

It doesn't stop every problem, not by a long shot. But this sh*t just doesn't happen any where near as much in countries that ban guns. England is similar to America in a lot of ways, but we don't have this happening all the time 'cause we don't have guns.

You want to go hunting? Use a f*cking bow.

[bawang]

it astounds me that ancient warriors would go on their knees and bow to their sword, and kiss their sword, treating their weapon with such respect, yet the most powerful, godly weapon ever made today are treated like toys.

[SoCo KungFu]

No, look, you really need to ban guns.

It doesn't stop every problem, not by a long shot. But this sh*t just doesn't happen any where near as much in countries that ban guns. England is similar to America in a lot of ways, but we don't have this happening all the time 'cause we don't have guns.

You want to go hunting? Use a f*cking bow.

There's far too many guns to ban in the US. It won't work. The only control mechanism we could hope to enact would be at the source and likely with ammunition. Ban it from ever even entering the civilian sector (not possession, just production and distribution); only available to military and law enforcement. People can keep their guns, when bullets start running out in 20-30 years they're all useless for criminals and honest folk alike. Sure some people will make their own. But in a couple generations that skill will likely die out. That's how culture is changed. Not by educating masses to change opinions. But by instilling norms that those who object eventually get old and die off. That's the way it is with any shift be it religious, scientific, you name it.

[Raipizo]

it astounds me that ancient warriors would go on their knees and bow to their sword, and kiss their sword, treating their weapon with such respect, yet the most powerful, godly weapon ever made today are treated like toys.

You're totally right. The Chinese really messed up inventing gunpowder and all. Times have changed, and yes guns are cowardly definitely by far, it takes no skill to use a gun. Now if you're using a sword that takes skill time and dedication which isn't found much anymore in today's schedule.

[Raipizo]

There's far too many guns to ban in the US. It won't work. The only control mechanism we could hope to enact would be at the source and likely with ammunition. Ban it from ever even entering the civilian sector; only available to military and law enforcement. People can keep their guns, when bullets start running out in 20-30 years they're all useless for criminals and honest folk alike.

You could ban gun sales. Then when their guns break, need something replaced it won't happen.

[bawang]

You're totally right. The Chinese really messed up inventing gunpowder and all. Times have changed, and yes guns are cowardly definitely by far, it takes no skill to use a gun. Now if you're using a sword that takes skill time and dedication which isn't found much anymore in today's schedule.

ancient chinese treated firearms as divine weapons. they were kept secret and used as last resort.

[RenDaHai]

There's far too many guns to ban in the US. It won't work. The only control mechanism we could hope to enact would be at the source and likely with ammunition. Ban it from ever even entering the civilian sector (not possession, just production and distribution); only available to military and law enforcement. People can keep their guns, when bullets start running out in 20-30 years they're all useless for criminals and honest folk alike. Sure some people will make their own. But in a couple generations that skill will likely die out. That's how culture is changed. Not by educating masses to change opinions. But by instilling norms that those who object eventually get old and die off. That's the way it is with any shift be it religious, scientific, you name it.

You could do it. You make it a crime to own a gun and not turn it in. A crime with massive financial penalty and after a few more years massive prison time. It doesn't get rid of all the guns but it slows things down and changes public perception. You make gun trafficking a capitol crime.

Then guns become very expensive on the black market. This means people plan the purchase of one for a specific crime. No longer do people get angry, go home, and there is a gun right there. They have to plan their crime and you get less spontaneous shootings. It will take time, but it will happen.

[Syn7]

if you have inferior weapons to cause harm, you will cause less harm.

in ancient times killing more than 10 people is unheard of. that requires superhuman ability. a gun gives you the equivalent of superhuman powers. it can turn the weakest coward into a god.

Fair enough, but as long as I can buy a gun with a few bucks and the right street corner, the legalities of how one can acquire a weapon are sort of moot. You wanna make a difference, start dealing with illegal firearms and arms traffickers. I even had a guy trying to sell a LAW in my area a few years ago. These weapons are out there and until they are used or some other crime draws attention to them, they stay out there. Shiiiit, they even found one on the side of the highway a few years ago.

I'm pretty socially "progressive", but not on this one. Not because I'm some NRA mouthpiece, but because I don't really see this as a gun issue. I don't think banning any or all guns will make much of a difference. Also I would like to point out that this is a very sad event and of course it totally sucks, but kids are being shot EVERY DAY with illegal or improperly stored firearms and it doesn't seem to make the news very often. Local, at best, for the most part. So 20 at once or 20 spread out, is one really worse than the others?

[RenDaHai]

I'm pretty socially "progressive", but not on this one. Not because I'm some NRA mouthpiece, but because I don't really see this as a gun issue. I don't think banning any or all guns will make much of a difference. Also I would like to point out that this is a very sad event and of course it totally sucks, but kids are being shot EVERY DAY with illegal or improperly stored firearms and it doesn't seem to make the news very often. Local, at best, for the most part. So 20 at once or 20 spread out, is one really worse than the others?

Yeah, it happens ALL the time. It Does NOT happen all the time in England.

I mean, think about road rage. If you have a gun in the car, you might use it and you know you have some kind of legal recourse.

But if guns are illegal, you know you are the criminal if you use it. ALso, you dont have it to hand, you have to plan buying it and take a lot of risks, by which point you probably forget why you are angry.

[bawang]

I don't really see this as a gun issue.

what issue is this then

[Syn7]

what issue is this then

Even tho might b oversimplified the issues, his points about cause are very valid. A society where everyone wants to live better than the next guy is not healthy. These kinds of attrocities are only one manifestation of a serious lack f balance in our lifestyles. Basically we are a bunch of spoiled brats who get sand in our vijayjays when we don't get our way. With enough pressure, stress or defective characteristics, people do dumb things. some self destruct with drugs, others shoot lil kids. and everything in between. Making laws about guns is like outlawing playgrounds because there are many inherent dangers in climbing around a jungle gym. While having restrictions are useful, like don't build too high, make soft landings etc, much more would just be ridiculous. Same with guns. Yeah don't hand out military grade weapons to everyone and anyone who can afford them, but taking them all away is overkill and will not solve the problem.

I don't think criminalizing drugs makes the problem any better. Clearly prohibition has not going well for us. It's not so diff with guns. Not exactly the same, but not that different either.