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Thread: Decision on Kung Fu Schools - New student

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    So when you say that in the shaolin class you broke a good sweat and got a good work out, but there was no real application work, do you mean that the entire class was composed of form work, or was there some good solid conditioning and drills taking place? Have you asked the current students if there are application days where that is the focus? a lot of times you may not get the full spectrum in one day.

    I am skeptical of a martial arts class where you do not break a sweat in a 3 hour class. Perhaps that was a special occasion day? I also am skeptical of a class that does not begin a new student of martial arts by building a foundation through introductory beginner basics. These are required building blocks that one needs to be able to progress at a consistant solid rate of understanding.

    all in all, as a beginner, i don't believe in many cases you will get a full picture in just one class. if you have some experience and know what you are looking for this is definately possible, but if you have absolutely zero experience, you may want to visit two or three more times to get a more rounded idea of the actual exposure you would get there.
    I have absolutely zero/0 experience; so even terminology I have no idea what i'm talking about at this point. But in the perfect world of idiocracy, the Shaolin class was form/conditioning drills (back and forth doing slap kicks of some sorts, what to me seemed like punches, but the Sifu was looking at form) as well as a ton of stretches; then I was taken alone to be taught 8 stances. One of the students mentioned more application was taught in the advanced class, which you needed to take a test for after 6-8 months.

    This 3 hour class was an intense class, as stated on the schedule. In respect, a lot of the older guys in the class were sweating. They took a 5 minute break every 30 minutes. They did the 8 stances as well as conditioning, but pretty slowly. A lot of stretching took place, in fact about an hour+ was stretches. I was pulled aside and shown the 8 stances (right side) by another student in conjunction with each other; however seemed a little rushed as he wanted to go practice with a weapon.

  2. #32
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    Well, honestly both seem like they could potentially meet your goals and needs, depending on what those are. If they do, and you're willing to share, do either or both of these schools have a web presence at all?

    You'll get a wide variance of what people think/believe a program should be like in a school. But what it really comes down to is you and your life and what you want to get out of practice. At the end of the day all that matters is if you are happy, and you are working towards your long term goals.

    Do NOT buy into any one elses hype or adgenda. This forum can be crazy and zany and trollolicious on a regular basis, but there really are some very well educated (martially lol) people here willing and able to give out great advice. Just have to roll with the punches (idiocy).

    Anyhow, honestly, from what you have said regarding your goals, I personally think either of those schools have the potential to get you on your path. What I would do, and it may be more costly at first depending, for what ever school you decide on I would go for a month to month basis if possible, or what ever the shortest term contract is, if you absolutely have to do a contract. This way if you find out it's not what you are looking for you can leave and try something else.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by mjwny View Post
    I have absolutely zero/0 experience; so even terminology I have no idea what i'm talking about at this point. But in the perfect world of idiocracy, the Shaolin class was form/conditioning drills (back and forth doing slap kicks of some sorts, what to me seemed like punches, but the Sifu was looking at form) as well as a ton of stretches; then I was taken alone to be taught 8 stances. One of the students mentioned more application was taught in the advanced class, which you needed to take a test for after 6-8 months.
    This all sounds pretty standard for Shaolin...

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post

    Do NOT buy into any one elses hype or adgenda. This forum can be crazy and zany and trollolicious on a regular basis, but there really are some very well educated (martially lol) people here willing and able to give out great advice. Just have to roll with the punches (idiocy).
    Lucas is right, if you have a high tolerance for nonsense and shenanigans, you'll occasionally run across some real good thoughts and arguments from some of these guys...

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If we look at the "inner hook (Ouchi Gari)", this clip shows the footwork.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir0_ND2xIho

    This clip shows the set up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4IxLY9n_-o

    This clip shows how to use it against noncompliant opponent.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDdMbxsD0z8

    What more information do you need? You first train your legs. After you get used to your legwork, you then train your hands. The hands move can be more complicated because in combat situation, your opponent won't allow you to grab him as shown in those clips.

    After you have learned the "inner hook", you will find out that the "leg lift", "leg twist", and "front cut" can all be learned exactly the same way, with the same footwork, and the same set up. Now you will have 4 tools in your toolbox. This is why a teacher should help you to develop those tools that you need by starting from

    - foootwork,
    - set up,
    - execution,

    and not just fill you up with form after form.

    This is the "traditional way to teach" a throwing art. Why the traditional striking art doesn't use this approach? I still don't understand even today.
    Thanks, interesting stuff. Speaking from a student p.o.v., I started out attending a group that went straight to applications and partner training. I enjoyed it and learned a lot. I can totally see the value of that emphasis.

    However over time I became more and more aware that I didn't possess the global whole-body coordination that I needed to make good progress. I really needed the basics.

    That ended up meaning the whole sequence of stance training, stepping and turning training, and sequencing these with form training that coordinated upper and lower body, just to get to a point that I suppose more athletic people start out at. I'm still working basics in various ways.

    Another more speculative idea is that forms to some extent are a tradition that go back to war dances. They involve a kind of emotional experience where you acquire a spirit of the style. Many may not believe in this, and maybe it's nonsense, I don't know, but that sort of thinking is a feature of tribal cultures, and possibly has surivived in CSM. It could be a kind of indoctrination. I'm not claiming this, just speculating.
    Last edited by rett; 12-20-2012 at 01:07 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    over time I became more and more aware that I didn't possess the global whole-body coordination that I needed to make good progress. I really needed the basics.
    When you are at home by yourself, you can repeat your partner drill without partner. That will be your solo drill. If you link many solo drills as a meaningful sequence, you have just created yourself a form.

    The advantage of this approach is your solo form is your partner drills. When you train the form that you have just created, you are killing 2 birds with 1 stone.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 12-20-2012 at 12:25 PM.
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  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    I wonder what kind of advise that mjwny may get if he goes to a forum that talks about:

    - health,
    - self-cultivation, and
    - inner peace.

    People in this forum may not have all reached to the "spiritual level" yet, but at least we all care about "combat".
    Sometimes you need to come out of the trees to see the forest.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    When you are at home by yourself, you can repeat your partner drill without partner. That will be your solo drill. If you link many solo drills as a meaningful sequence, you have just created yourself a form.

    The advantage of this approach is your solo form is your partner drills. When you train the form that you have just created, you are killing 2 birds with 1 stone.
    This sounds like a very good approach, active and creative. Thanks for the idea.

  9. #39
    I think all forms should be able to have a counterpart. Whether it's a two man or more. For combat forms anyways.

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