Chambering in forms.

[Kellen Bassette]

I want to hear what you guys were taught/teach as the reason for punching from chamber in form work. Do you see this a purely an aesthetic thing for performance, or is there an underlying method that pertains to martial training.

I've always imagined the reason for chambering to be to teach the student to not let his elbow flail out on a straight line strike. I suppose it can also be used to teach the action/reaction principle of pulling one arm back a bit to make the strike with the opposing hand stronger; however the actual application of this concept is relatively minimal when maintaining a good guard.

Also, I've trained in systems that have taught high chambers and those that employ low chambers. The guys that used the high chambers argue that it is better because you get more power with the arms at the chest than at the waist. They use the analogy, "you bench press from your chest, not your waist. It makes sense, but it all seems like semantics to me; since you fight with your hands in a guard, not in chamber. Arguing which chamber is better seems as meaningless as arguing which bow/salute is the best.

All the same, if anyone has heard arguments to why a low, mid or high chamber is better, I'd like to hear them; just for discussion.

[YouKnowWho]

When you start your right punch with

- left shoulder forward,
- both hands on your right waist, and
- end with your right punch with right shoulder forward,
- left hand on your left waist.

You have "compress" your body to the maximum, and then release your body to the maximum. To a beginner, this kind of "compress" and "release" feeling are important. It helps you to understand "power generation". Without this kind of training and if you go to combat training right way, you may always wonder for the rest of your life, "What's the maximum power can I truly generate?"

[Kellen Bassette]

When you start your right punch with

- left shoulder forward,
- both hands on your right waist, and
- end with your right punch with right shoulder forward,
- left hand on your left waist.

You have "compress" your body to the maximum, and then release your body to the maximum. To a beginner, this kind of "compress" and "release" feeling are important. It help you to understand "power generation". Without this kind of training and if you go to combat training right way, you may always wonder for the rest of your life, "What's the maximum power can I truly generate?"

Thanks, YKW...this is the kind of feedback I was hoping for...I know lots of people explain things different ways...this is good.

[YouKnowWho]

Many years ago, a young Zimen guy bowed to the 8 steps praying mantis master Wei Hsiao Tang. He then stepped in and striked his hand on master Wei's chest. After that, he stepped back, bowed, and left. The young guy was never in "on guard" position.

Not all fight start from "on guard". When your hands drop next to your legs, you need to find a path to move your hand to your opponent's face. That's the most nature striking path.

[bawang]

I want to hear what you guys were taught/teach as the reason for punching from chamber in form work.

learning body mechanics aka shen fa, and exagerated movements for performance.



in ancient times, if you dont exagerate your performance, people also dont tip you money.

[Kellen Bassette]

learning body mechanics aka shen fa, and exagerated movements for performance.



in ancient times, if you dont exagerate your performance, people also dont tip you money.

I suspect that performance and aesthetics were a big part of it...but with so many diverse arts using the method I got believe it is at least partially to do with martial application...like YKW's thought..

[bawang]

I suspect that performance and aesthetics were a big part of it...but with so many diverse arts using the method I got believe it is at least partially to do with martial application...like YKW's thought..

no, because northern kung fu oral teaching emphasizes never dropping the hands.

performance is the main reason. in cantonese kung fu, they even bow to invisible crowd as part of the form.

even shuaijiao has huge performance aspect.

[Kellen Bassette]

no, because northern kung fu oral teaching emphasizes never dropping the hands.

performance is the main reason. in cantonese kung fu, they even bow to invisible crowd as part of the form.

even shuaijiao has huge performance aspect.

As does Karate, Muay Thai and many others...but northern Kung Fu uses salutes as well...isn't that pretty much the same as bowing to an invisible crowd?

[bawang]

As does Karate, Muay Thai and many others...but northern Kung Fu uses salutes as well...isn't that pretty much the same as bowing to an invisible crowd?

northern kung fu doesnt have bows or salutes. it has signature moves that identify your teacher.

[Kellen Bassette]

northern kung fu doesnt have bows or salutes. it has signature moves that identify your teacher.

I think we're splitting hairs on that. I think of any standard, preparatory first move of a form as a "salute."

[EarthDragon]

May I add, another reason chambering is so important is it teaches you muscle memory.
When we use certain counters or joint locks, after we trap our opponents arm, we twisht into a chamber position which turns thier elbow either upward or downward to alolow us to break lock dislocate etc etc. I am constantly telling my students pull your opponent wrist to chamber this will aloow proper position..

[Kellen Bassette]

May I add, another reason chambering is so important is it teaches you muscle memory.
When we use certain counters or joint locks, after we trap our opponents arm, we twisht into a chamber position which turns thier elbow either upward or downward to alolow us to break lock dislocate etc etc. I am constantly telling my students pull your opponent wrist to chamber this will aloow proper position..

True; and now that you mention that; the typical Sanda/Muay Thai move of catching a mid level roundhouse and pulling it in to you is basically ending in a high chamber.

Thanks for the input!

[David Jamieson]

don't pull back too far and waste energy pr telegraph.
Chambering develops a better habit.

It is not serviceable in sparring or fighting. It is intended to train you not to go too far back and not to telegraph your shots. You extend that to when you keeps your hands up and work on explosive striking.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't see the benefit of chambering in forms.
Some of the best strikers I know are boxers and TCMA that do NOT and have never chambered their strikes.
By Chambering I mean the class withdrawal to the hip or side of the body by the fist/hand.

[Kevin73]

As with most things in traditional training, there are levels built into the training structure.

Among other things, chambering properly teaches you to use the most effecient path with recruitment of muscles. It also teaches you the reverse motion after you have trapped/grabbed the opponent and are pulling them off balance or into your strike.

As to the high chamber vs. low chamber. It depends on what kind of punch you are training for. The low chamber is based on the idea that a rising strike does more damage and uprooting to your opponent. The high chamber is based on the idea that the arm is in a stronger position to strike straight in.