Chambering in forms.

[SimonM]

in ancient times, if you dont exagerate your performance, people also dont tip you money.

Hitting the nail firmly on the head.

[David Jamieson]

I don't see the benefit of chambering in forms.
Some of the best strikers I know are boxers and TCMA that do NOT and have never chambered their strikes.
By Chambering I mean the class withdrawal to the hip or side of the body by the fist/hand.

Maybe you don't, but the practice isn't here to benefit you, it's there to aid a beginner in body awareness and to also make them get in the habit of keeping the elbows in and joints closer to the body to facilitate the position of strength.

Frankly, at your age and with the practice you have put in, you really don't need the teaching anymore.

I think this happens with a lot of guys. They forget how gangly and unaware of their bodies they were in their youth when they began.

Always remember, you didn't know how to spell until AFTER you learned the alphabet.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Maybe you don't, but the practice isn't here to benefit you, it's there to aid a beginner in body awareness and to also make them get in the habit of keeping the elbows in and joints closer to the body to facilitate the position of strength.

Frankly, at your age and with the practice you have put in, you really don't need the teaching anymore.

I think this happens with a lot of guys. They forget how gangly and unaware of their bodies they were in their youth when they began.

Always remember, you didn't know how to spell until AFTER you learned the alphabet.

LOL, Fair enough.
But other systems don't "need" it so I think the jury is out as to why some thing they do.
Boxers don't need it for example.
Yes, I am aware of the benefits of full range of motion in terms of muscle development and exercise, still...

[bawang]

LOL, Fair enough.
But other systems don't "need" it so I think the jury is out as to why some thing they do.
Boxers don't need it for example.
Yes, I am aware of the benefits of full range of motion in terms of muscle development and exercise, still...

kung fu has a tradition for teaching extremely physically weak people, while boxing takes the naturally gifted and talented.

the difference today is the natural progression from chambering to hands up is cut off. when you teach only using the form, you become slave to the form, and you canot change.

chambered punching itself is a type of gong, or special training.

[sanjuro_ronin]

kung fu has a tradition for teaching extremely physically weak people, while boxing takes the naturally gifted and talented.

the difference today is the natural progression from chambering to hands up is cut off. when you teach only using the form, you become slave to the form, and you canot change.

chambered punching itself is a type of gong, or special training.

Sure, I can see it that way.
I don't agree that boxing takes the naturally gifted and talented.
ALL people are started off the same way and taught the same way.
I think that a weal puncher in boxing will be a weak puncher in Karate and vice-versa.
Punching power is something one is born with ( of course training allows one to develop it's potential, whatever the potential is, to the max).

[bawang]

Sure, I can see it that way.
I don't agree that boxing takes the naturally gifted and talented.
ALL people are started off the same way and taught the same way.
I think that a weal puncher in boxing will be a weak puncher in Karate and vice-versa.
Punching power is something one is born with ( of course training allows one to develop it's potential, whatever the potential is, to the max).

once i asked my teacher why he doesnt teach real fighting to many people. he said that when he tried to teach the secret training to his students, most were confused and repelled, because it looks like sloppy kickboxing.

what was worthless and superficial in ancient times (forms) is prized treasure today, and what was closely guarded secret (kickboxing) is worthless in kung fu today.

[Frost]

once i asked my teacher why he doesnt teach real fighting to many people. He said that when he tried to teach the secret training to his students, most were confused and repelled, because it looks like sloppy kickboxing.

lmao

[bawang]

lmao

its called paizi shou. its secret training.

oral traditions and manuals also basically teach kickboxing.


when i met with some kung fu people i showed my forms with no chambering. they thought i made it up and was a liar who learned from dvd. the idea of doing a combat sequence realistically was hilarious to them.

[David Jamieson]

LOL, Fair enough.
But other systems don't "need" it so I think the jury is out as to why some thing they do.
Boxers don't need it for example.
Yes, I am aware of the benefits of full range of motion in terms of muscle development and exercise, still...

Boxing teaches the same idea in a different way.

Keep your elbows in. IN!!! is what your boxing coach will shout at you.

he'll also tell you that when you do a low hook, the motion should be like a butter churn. Elbows in, turn the body with the strike and don't let the shoulder take all the force. You do this by keeping the elbows in,

IN!!!!

[Kevin73]

LOL, Fair enough.
But other systems don't "need" it so I think the jury is out as to why some thing they do.
Boxers don't need it for example.
Yes, I am aware of the benefits of full range of motion in terms of muscle development and exercise, still...

Boxing uses a chambering postion as well. It's just that boxing incorporates their chamber from the modern rules guard. You only have to protect from about mid abdomen up, so your guard and approach will reflect that ruleset. If you look at older boxing manuals that allowed kicking and throwing, the guard and delivery looks very similiar to karate.

Also, watch when boxers actually fight in the ring. What do they do for their power punches in the heat of the moment? They draw them back and chamber them before throwing and it is not from their static guard position. You will see many hooks and uppercuts coming from the hip position and not the tight usage that you see when being taught. Look at these Top 10 boxing KO's and how often the punch is chambered or pullback before throwing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HB3Vj_bURA

[bawang]

Boxing uses a chambering postion as well. It's just that boxing incorporates their chamber from the modern rules guard. You only have to protect from about mid abdomen up, so your guard and approach will reflect that ruleset. If you look at older boxing manuals that allowed kicking and throwing, the guard and delivery looks very similiar to karate.

[Jimbo]

I would add that there are many successful pro boxers whose entire fighting styles are fundamentally "incorrect" according to western boxing. Sure, they all look more or less the same when they shadow box, work the pads, heavy bag, etc.; but when such fighters fight, their technique often "goes out the window". Hands held low; extremely wide, looping punches; little to no defense. Sometimes it's due to pure aggression and a desire to make every punch a bomb. Other times, a fighter uses his own natural, physical talent, speed, etc. Yet in spite of that, they make it work, very well. Such unorthodox fighters can, depending on the person, confuse, overwhelm, or throw off the rhythm, etc., of some of the more orthodox fighters. Although if they're at it long enough, there's usually a disaster coming up, often more dramatic than for the ones who relied on solid fundamentals.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Guys, look at my original post, I am talking about chambering the hand/fist all the way back to the side of the body.

[YouKnowWho]

Frankly, at your age and with the practice you have put in, you really don't need the teaching anymore.

This is the problem that we all have. Sometime we just forgot the time that we had spent to prepare "combat" when we were young. We may treat everybody in this forum all have 30 years of training experience.

Should we go to elementary school? Of course we should. Should we stay in elementary school forever? Of course we shouldn't.

[Jimbo]

There is clambering in many (most? all?) of my system's forms, but for sparring we strike from wherever the hand is, usually from a guard position, at least at the beginning of a combo. Functionally speaking, I do not see a usage for chambering the hand to the hip or side. I know that in some cases, the chambering can also represent a grab and pulling in as you strike with the other hand, but it actually happens so infrequently in usage.

Personally, I've never habitually chambered my hand in sparring. I've never confused form and function, even though I incorporate principles contained in our basics and forms.