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Thread: Po Pai is it a strike or pushing

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Anyone know the Characters for Po Pai? The name often helps you understand the technique better.
    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=62369

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunIan View Post
    Always a strike for me in application, with energy in two different directions (up and in & down and in) using "inch energy". Only used as a push in demos and with training partners to illustrate a point or possibly if the situation requires you to eject someone from your vicinity without actually hurting them. It can be turned into a push by driving through with the legs (for me it ceases to be po pai after the strike and is simply biu ma etc with a contact point) but unless you're being nice for some reason why would you not strike?
    Ian won't be able to see this because I'm on his ignore list but what an absolute load of rubbish that post is. Energy in two different directions? Only used as a push in demos? Ejecting somebody from the vicinity without hurting them? What nonsense has he been taught? Apparently it ceases to be po pai after the strike. Biu ma with a contact point?

    For me that post sums up why wing chun is ruined.

  3. #18
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    Cheers Rett,

    'Holding a placard'

    So hands like you are holding a board in between them. I guess this describes the position as opposed to the action.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Cheers Rett,

    'Holding a placard'

    So hands like you are holding a board in between them. I guess this describes the position as opposed to the action.
    I've also heard "破排" meaning a broken line, because however you angle the hands they don't exactly line up, like the "Shizi Da Zhang Zui" palm position.

  5. #20
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    Bruce Lee once said, "I strike and I don't push".

    1 point contact is "strike". 2 (or 3) points contact in reverse directions is "throw". The term "push" is neither a "strike" nor a "throw". What's the purpose of "push"?

    If you have to use "push", you will need to "pull" at the same time. If you use one hand to push your opponent's head and use other hand (or leg) to pull (or hook) your opponent's leg, he will be down, This way you can rotate your opponent to move his gravity center to be outside of his base. Just to push your opponent from point A to point B make no sense in combat. People said that you can push your opponent off cliff or into incoming traffic. That argument will never satisfy me.

    IMO, "push" without the "leg moves (such as cut, hook, scoop, sweep, break, spring, ...)" is useless in combat.

    Here is an example of "push" with hand and "pull" with leg at the same time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38O7w...ature=youtu.be
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 01-18-2013 at 11:14 AM.
    http://johnswang.com

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  6. #21
    Well YKW in application if you have things like stairs, furniture, ledges, uneven ground, pavement, or you can make your opponent fall over, then a push can be pretty effective at damaging or gaining a superior position. Heck even for something like disengaging from the clinch knowing how to push can be very beneficial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ali. R View Post
    I’ve sent a lot of overzealous men down to their knees with that... watch the wonderful reaction/whimper you’ll get from that person.

    The ‘ginger fist’ really works.

  7. #22
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    I didn’t want to come up behind your other posts you made in the past, because I didn’t want it to look like I’m just favoring you based on your signature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    Well YKW in application if you have things like stairs, furniture, ledges, uneven ground, pavement, or you can make your opponent fall over, then a push can be pretty effective at damaging or gaining a superior position. Heck even for something like disengaging from the clinch knowing how to push can be very beneficial.
    One day, I’d finished a class with a bunch of off duty ‘Hamtramck Police Officers’, and we all ended up at a friend’s coffee shops drinking cappuccino and Lattes. We were all drinking outside on the patio, when a detective; who I’ve never met before pulls up and started to ask me a bunch of questions, for ID and who do I know, where am I going when I leave; saying all of this while going through my pockets, the usual crap that most people like myself go through in the inter city of ‘Detroit’ while driving or walking through that part town (a small polish sub-division right in the middle of the city of ‘Detroit’) And all of this was happening right in front of my students.

    They said nothing, because they just wanted to see how I would react, so I just compiled to his every command with no issues. But the lady who own the shop came out and asked him why was he doing all of this to me and he wouldn’t say anything to her, she took offence because she knew him for many years and because he wouldn’t speak to her even with all of the other cops watching. To make a long story short, she was a student for seven years –or- so and was the one who introduce them (cops) to my new school in that area.

    She began to explain to him who I was and why all of his fellow comrades were there also, so they’d all came off the patio and stood around the unmarked vehicle as she demonstrated to him some of the things that I’ve taught her in the past. Well, most of the group was standing on the sidewalk while she was on the grass and the detective had half of his feet on the grass and the other half on the curb, and she began to show him a technique that I usually teach in my women’s self –defense classes and this is what happen.

    When she took her finger tips and jammed them at/in his sternum (dotting), he reacted in shock, and within the same movement she pressed her palm down on his solar plexus, which slid his feet off the curb as her hand went upwards to his throat using ‘Deh-Jeong’ (panther fist), causing him to fall on her knuckles giving more impact to the strike, he’d gagged for almost two minutes. Everyone cheered as if they’ve seen something in a movie.

    You can see the technique that I’m talking about at mark 1:00, stuff that I'd use to do that made judges lean forward in their sets, I use to do throat and cavity pressing technique in a way that the judges couldn’t see them to break the spirit of my opponents before landing heavier strikes. Here’s the clip, watch it at mark 1:00. But, he’s right the terrain can always be used for your advantage.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOOxr...AD0BAD4D62A11A

  8. #23
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    In my own style of Wing Chun I call it double palm strike. I don't do the one palm up and one palm down like you see in the forms and such because it can lead to personal wrist injury if it goes bad on you. Also I have used it as a push as well. Pushing can have it's uses. Shoving someone violently into objects can cause injury quickly and easily. And If you do it right you can shove someone completely across a room into a counter top, table, chairs, just about anything that is there.
    Jackie Lee

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    Well YKW in application if you have things like stairs, furniture, ledges, uneven ground, pavement, or you can make your opponent fall over, then a push can be pretty effective at damaging or gaining a superior position. Heck even for something like disengaging from the clinch knowing how to push can be very beneficial.
    To keep friends close and enemies closer is always my belief. One time I had an auto accident in Taipei, Taiwan. When I argued with that guy, I found that he kept moving toward his car door. I stood between him and his car door until cops came. Later on cops found out that he had a hand gun in his glove compartment. If I pushed that guy away from me, he might have change to get his gun and came back at me. I like to pull more than push. The best place for my enemy is between my arms.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img444/5471/octopus.jpg
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 01-19-2013 at 01:08 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  10. #25

    po pai

    Po pai? I prefer chicken veg.....

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by chaotic2k View Post
    Po pai? I prefer chicken veg.....
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Takes all kinds to make a village!!

  12. #27
    You stick with the village people. Im living it up in the city homes.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu View Post
    can you post a better video?
    http://youtu.be/s6T_8eJEnxc good double palm strike /push...follow up.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    http://youtu.be/s6T_8eJEnxc good double palm strike /push...follow up.
    A quick question for k gledhill. Watching this clip, and few of the others you posted from the WSLPBVT guys, when you are training Chi Sao and Lap Sau, do you try to step into the opponent's/training partner's stance?

    I am pretty horrible at remembering the Chinese for these things, but in Leung Ting's WT we call it Yaat Mah Bo Faat (if that helps, but it probably won't as my spelling of it probably doesn't help you much ).

    In these clips (such as the one you linked above) the guys are in hitting range (they can make contact), but I don't see footwork that takes them deeper into the opponent's space.

    Is that something you work on in other drills/training, or is it not something your line focusses on?

    Ps. That Croatian is a big chap

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT View Post
    A quick question for k gledhill. Watching this clip, and few of the others you posted from the WSLPBVT guys, when you are training Chi Sao and Lap Sau, do you try to step into the opponent's/training partner's stance?

    I am pretty horrible at remembering the Chinese for these things, but in Leung Ting's WT we call it Yaat Mah Bo Faat (if that helps, but it probably won't as my spelling of it probably doesn't help you much ).

    In these clips (such as the one you linked above) the guys are in hitting range (they can make contact), but I don't see footwork that takes them deeper into the opponent's space.

    Is that something you work on in other drills/training, or is it not something your line focusses on?

    Ps. That Croatian is a big chap

    We have a different tactical objective in mind, a difference in execution to LT lineage.

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