What was known about Shaolin Kung Fu prior to the 20th century?

[rett]

BTW, Shahar says that Hong Fist (Hong Quan) is a southern style related to Shaolin by legend only, but he might be talking about a different style to the Hong Quan mentioned in this topic?

It's been a while since I read Shahar and I don't have it handy, but he's probably talking about Hung Gar of Wong Fei Hung fame.

Hung Gar = "Hong Jia" i.e. Hong Family (洪家）

Not the same style, but others could give you the details better than I.

[pazman]

Tell us more about Shaolin, falkor. What style of kenpo do you practice?

[wenshu]

You have no concept of Wu De do you. You bring dishonor to all who know you. To take the time to construct a pic as you did is childish, immature and nothing but , self seeking. You really need alot of good meds and Psychological treatments. KC

I didn't give you permission to post outside of the ShaolinDo thread, peasant.

Falkor; obvious ShaolinDo troll is obvious.

[falkor]

It's been a while since I read Shahar and I don't have it handy, but he's probably talking about Hung Gar of Wong Fei Hung fame.

Hung Gar = "Hong Jia" i.e. Hong Family (洪家）

Not the same style, but others could give you the details better than I.

Yeah, that must be it, as he talks about the escapees who carried on the lineage in the south.

[falkor]

Tell us more about Shaolin, falkor. What style of kenpo do you practice?

I only saw Kenpo in a movie called Perfect Weapon, otherwise I don't know much about it. I heard it has links to Japan or Taiwan or something, but my knowledge is poor.

Does anyone know if southern style Eagle's claw with the fingers spread apart came from Shaolin? What does northern Eagle style look like?

[hskwarrior]

Originally Posted by rett View Post
It's been a while since I read Shahar and I don't have it handy, but he's probably talking about Hung Gar of Wong Fei Hung fame.

Hung Gar = "Hong Jia" i.e. Hong Family (洪家）

Not the same style, but others could give you the details better than I.

I know there are factions in dispute about Hung Gar/Hung Kuen. imo, hung family is about the entire family while Hung Kuen is the fist of the Hung Family.

[falkor]

I know there are factions in dispute about Hung Gar/Hung Kuen. imo, hung family is about the entire family while Hung Kuen is the fist of the Hung Family.

Thanks for clarifying that. I've always wondered the difference between Hung Gar and Hung Kuen. Now I know.

[hskwarrior]

Thanks for clarifying that. I've always wondered the difference between Hung Gar and Hung Kuen. Now I know.

nah don't believe me i was making that sh1t up.....lol jk

[falkor]

Lau Kar Leung has a style called Plum flower fist he states originates directly from Siu Lum temple... it is not the typical hung gar plum flower fist "Mui Fah Kuen" many hung lineages practice, but a plum fist which he is one of the only practitioners to carry, along with a temple origin story... he has only taught it to a few students & it is considered top form/style in his lineage after the iron wire etc...

I didn't know about that, but LKL has a special place in my heart. His films were the first to showcase pure Chinese martial arts styles. I wondered why some other non-Shaw Brothers movies also featured proper Chinese Kung Fu at around the same time as LKL's, such as Master of the Flying Guillotine and Ming Patriots, but it turns out they were also choreographed by him. Basically, where I come from LKL is a god!

[falkor]

Chan is about approaching everything like it is a skill to be mastered. It doesn't make you follow a set of principles, it asks you to actually train wisdom as though it were a Kung fu technique. To actually meditate on the things that are. To argue everything so you may refine your opinions and strengthen your convictions.

This is training. Explaining it to another clarifies my own knowledge.

Although, in this case I am putting in a lot of effort for little reward. If you can get someone who is set in their opinion to change their mind using patience and logic then it is a wonderful thing.

Here's a little reward for you, my friend, for all your patience (hope you like it):

[RenDaHai]

Where to begin.....

*I like the posters.

*Hong Quan is possibly the most common name for a martial art in China. Hong means 'Vast' and in the olden days was used to mean 'good, impressive.'

Shaanxi Hong quan is probably the oldest. Look it up on you-tube. The Hong is different, in this case it means 'red' but the pronunciation is the same and I think people didn't used to be so literate.

*Mizhong/YanQing quan does have a history related to Shaolin. There is a Mizhong quan practiced to day, though it is unrelated and IMO quite obviously of Shandong origins. Although a Mantis expert would be better to confirm this. In any case the Huo Yuan Jia Mizhong is related to Shaolin but distantly and a while ago. It is not Song Shan stuff and I am certain it was not in the 19th century.

* I don't have the book to hand. YOu will have to quote more on the 8 drunken immortals because I can't believe there was a shaolin text about that. What did Shahar say his source was?

*Look Shaolin up on Google maps and note the huge number of surrounding villages, and those are only the ones printed on maps. Go there and you will find the ancient structures still in them. They have been there a long time and many are within 3 miles of Shaolin. Very many within 5 and a gigantic population within 10.

*Boobies

*It was not and is still not easy to learn good Kung fu if you visit DengFeng. If you are a native however it is easy. I went to villages where every one in the village practiced the village style and they showed no one who wasn't born there, at least not more than the form. This is what it would have been like. Still hidden but known to many. Many of the monks would have been born locally.

*None of what you say seems to have any foundation in logic.


Whoever told you all this stuff about Shaolin? Did that person ever go there? What does he base this on?

[kwaichang]

I am oh so sorry that I exposed you to everyone on this site for what you are a Low life *******. Please accept my most humble apology KC

[RenDaHai]

Wenshu, KwaiChang come on now boys, we are all brothers here.....

[wenshu]

get the eff outta here with that bromance shit

[Kellen Bassette]

Falkor...you got do some more research and reading up on Kung Fu before you try to have this debate. You don't seem to grasp some very fundamental, well understood facts about Kung Fu; it's making it impossible for you to understand what people are telling you.

There are literally hundreds of systems that call themselves Shaolin Kung Fu. Some were partially based on Shaolin, some probably just used the name. When you say Shaolin, you mean the style called Songshan Shaolin which developed in and around the temple. You keep using the word Songshan, but don't seem to know the difference.

Bak Siu Lum, (northern Shaolin) is a different system. Related, but not the same. Northern Eagle Claw, Hun Gar, Wing Chun, Choy Li Fut, ect. are all called "Shaolin" systems. They are not the same as what is/was taught at the temple.

You don't seem to understand when a style uses Mandarin or Cantonese. Anything that uses Cantonese is not northern; and can't be directly from Songshan. What's so hard about that?

I also don't have Meir's book handy, but when you talked about "Hong" possibly having no relation, I'm pretty sure he was talking about a different, southern system there. Songshan is based off Hong Quan.

There is a famous southern form called "The Eight Drunken Immortals." Not to be confused with the myth that inspired it. That form, I believe, was the inspiration for the Jackie Chan movie you mentioned. I'm not 100% on that. I don't know the form, but that one is certainly not a Songshan form. That's not saying there's not drunken forms at Shaolin. There are various styles with drunken forms. Lots of forms have the same names.

You seem to be seeing anything with the name Shaolin; and tying it to Songshan. Shaolin Soccer didn't originate at the temple either...that's as silly as calling something Shaolin Kempo.