古存 Old Surviving Ground Boxing

[Tainan Mantis]

Tang Lang Ground Fighting
About the form called 古存地躺拳 Gu Cun Di Tang Quan "Old Surviving Ground Boxing."
From research of Xiao Yao and I. It is from Shui Kou and therefore part of Shou Kou Men style 水口門. Other forms of that style are "Throw and Pull." Techniques of which are explained and compared to Wah Lum Mantis in the article Iron Door Bolt.

I beleive that this form Gu Cun is related to or desended from the form Lian Wu Zhang.

About the names of the form, just so that we know we are talking about the same form Lian Wu Zhang

The Lineages

This video clip looks like the Su Kegang version. This form is also taught by Shi Zhengzhong (where I learned it), Zhao Zhuxi (Chu Chuk Kai of Taiji Tang Lang) Su Kegang, Gao Daosheng, Tian Shan Pai lineage and I think it is also taught in the states by Wu Changyin lineage.
This form descends from Shandong.

I have found that this form is known by the following names in the different schools, signifying to me that it is old enough to have several different names.

Lian wu shou 連五手

lian wu zhang連五掌

lian wu chui 連五錘

xiao wu shou 小五手


Lian wu chui 連五錘 is the name used by the Taiji Tanglang of Zhao Zhuxi. Thier version looks somewhat different from the Taiwan way, but still very close.

The Shui Kou style 水口門 which was taught by Cui Shoushan had the form called 古存. It is part of the Digong ground fighting of Mantis. I believe Gu Cun to be the same form as Lian Wu Zhang but with some differences crept in. But the basic outline fo the form is still there.

Gu Cun Video
Here is a sample, I think this person may have just learned it, so try and use your imagination on how it would look after more practice 古存地躺拳

So, my conclusion is that this is a form that was taught in Tang Lang a long time ago and has undergone some changes in the different branches.

It is part of the ground fighting style, which old mantis contains. What is most important about this form to me is that it can be performed as a two person exercise-two person form-the student can learn to move from the different takedowns-only four major takedowns with the differnt combinations that they can be arranged in.

[xiao yao]

Gu Cun and Shuai Luo were both taught as preludes to Tanglang by Cui Shou Shan. I believe Wang Yu Shan's lineage in Qingdao also teaches them.

Here is a previous thread: http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...t=shui+kou+men

I posted a clip on that thread from Ilya Profitalov's channel which showcases some Shui Kou Men.

[MightyB]

It probably wouldn't be that difficult to create a modern two-person ground fighting form for CMA. The hardest part would be selecting the techniques to include. Every hold, lock and submission has a counter and there's a practice called flow drills where you seamlessly go from one to the other and vis-a-vis so making it transition and flow would be a piece of cake. Ad some kung fu striking, locks, and takedowns and go from there.

[xiao yao]

My Shifu mentioned there was also a two person form like that in the Shui Kou curriculum. It was called Zhe Cai (break and pluck) and was made up of 36 Qin Na techniques and 72 strikes.

When I learned Ba Gua we often practiced countering locks with locks and flowing with them.

[MightyB]

My Shifu mentioned there was also a two person form like that in the Shui Kou curriculum. It was called Zhe Cai (break and pluck) and was made up of 36 Qin Na techniques and 72 strikes.

When I learned Ba Gua we often practiced countering locks with locks and flowing with them.

I was thinking more on the lines of transitioning from standing to modern groundwork. Like takedown to side control, to mount to ground and pound - opponent upa, to caught in guard, break guard to side control to attempted udi gatame, opponent counters - etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

The big finish could be the helicopter escape from a triangle attempt with both standing back up.

[Tainan Mantis]

Here is a video of Gu Cun

It is similar to Lian Wu Zhang with the addition of some extra kicks.

[xiao yao]

some of these old systems barely exist except for a few forms practiced by some old men in a village somewhere... i doubt there is any real tactics to it any more.

but i do think it would be cool to dig up some of this stuff and apply it to modern MA