Incorporating Ground Fighting in Shaolin

[YouKnowWho]

My observation is Judo guys and a BJJ guys fighting posture are different. Judo guys like to extend their arms. BJJ guys like to keep their hands next to their body.

[Kellen Bassette]

wrestling and bjj has nothing to do with self defence.

No, but it's not unrealistic to think that you may someday have an altercation with someone who has experience in BJJ or wrestling. The sheer number of people who train these makes it a real possibility.

[MightyB]

It doesn't even take much to learn basic positioning and movement. Add some escapes and some flow drills and teach people how to disengage. Do 15 minutes of these basic exercises during class with resisting partners and you have a basic understanding.

You're using common sense, logic, and reasoning... careful, the natives will get restless and throw their dung at you.

[Kellen Bassette]

I'll have to point y'all to my BJJ / Judo vs Multiple Opponents thread. Do yourself a favor and watch the vid. It will be an enlightening experience.

I feel enlightened, lol

[Kellen Bassette]

You're using common sense, logic, and reasoning... careful, the natives will get restless and throw their dung at you.

I see you've been in this situation before.

[MightyB]

My observation is Judo guys and a BJJ guys fighting posture are different. Judo guys like to extend their arms. BJJ guys like to keep their hands next to their body.

only in stand up, why, 'cuz Judo is better at stand up. On the ground any fighter worth their salt knows to keep their arms in tight.

[Syn7]

I can't say for BJJ. Never done it. When I say wrestling I don't mean Greco roman wrestling.

And the ability to get someone off of you to escape DOES have something to do with self defense.

I just call it grappling. Whether I'm beating you up against a wall, standing, in an open field or taking you down for a sub or pound out. I grapple in my standup, my ground and they stages in between.

And greco can be a great asset in a standup fight. Wrestling can be used to dictate where a fight takes place. Whether you want to stay standing or not. It's a lot easier to not get punched than it is to not get thrown, IMO. For me anyways.

[Syn7]

I'll have to point y'all to my BJJ / Judo vs Multiple Opponents thread. Do yourself a favor and watch the vid. It will be an enlightening experience.

Ha, that's a great commercial!!!

IMO being able to drop down and get right back up, and knowing what to do to get there and when you get there, is a great asset. Multiple opponents or not.

[Syn7]

I think of it this way too. Not knocking BJJ or anything, but all fights start standing up. You need to have some stand up fighting. All the BJJ guys in MMA cross train or at least work stand up, of course.

BJJ for sport and BJJ for self defence are approached slightly differently. Also JJJ is quite different but still good. Judo is a diff beast, but very effective against multiple opponents.

Personally I have one primary striking style and one primary grappling style and I try to make them work with eachother and supplement with other arts I come across that fascinate me. Like Bak Mei. I would never fight like that. But I would mos def use a lot of it in combination with my more muay thai style. And the rooting and floating are great add ons to both muay thai and wrestling. Wrestling is just natural for me cause I did it all through elementary and high school. Very handy indeed.

I find the bridging is very helpful in transition from striking to grappling while staying free enough to switch between the two on demand, when possible. Chinna, while somewhat counterintuitive to me, I also find quite helpful in learning different grips and such.

[Syn7]

My observation is Judo guys and a BJJ guys fighting posture are different. Judo guys like to extend their arms. BJJ guys like to keep their hands next to their body.

BJJ is not a great fighting style just by itself. Until recently even their takedowns and TD prevention sucked! Rather they focused on taking it down to an advantageous position. Not my way. Ultimately, I would rather stand if I can, assuming I'm not getting picked apart on my feet, that is. I would never pull guard unless I fealt I had no choice. I am very glad I did sub grappling No gi instead. Way more focus on striking and wrestling than BJJ for BJJ rulesets.

I love judo, but again, the sport version leaves a lot to be desired. They combat versions are great tho. Well, some are, anyways. Some of the militant Judo is fucking impressive....!!!

[Syn7]

No, but it's not unrealistic to think that you may someday have an altercation with someone who has experience in BJJ or wrestling. The sheer number of people who train these makes it a real possibility.

I totally disagreee that wrestling does NOT have great self defense value. So much so that I don't even feel like I need to explain why. It should be obvious, IMO.

[Syn7]

You're using common sense, logic, and reasoning... careful, the natives will get restless and throw their dung at you.

That's because you can't be too deadly for practice until you have spent 6897698689 dollars and 20 years of your life doing postures!

[LFJ]

How much time you are willing to spend on your back, by choice, totally depends on the situation. Believe it or not, people now and always have been in situations where they are in an isolated one on one scenario.

Also, why does everyone assume you will be on your back? You CAN use BJJ, Judo etc against multiple opponents. DO you really think a samurai who was unhorsed and mounted never thought to himself "Shit, I better get up before his friends get here". I think we all need to let go of a few assumptions. One of those should be that a monk would not see the benefit of BJJ because he always assumes multiple opponents. I mean, come one. They weren't idiots.

Speaking of assumptions, I never spoke a word about multiple attackers or being on your back...

A 17th century Shaolin monk would not see the benefit of BJJ because he'd have his own Shaolin ground fighting strategy that is completely geared toward survival, not scoring points and submissions.

[wenshu]

This, of course, is the optimum answer; but for the student who doesn't have the time/money to train two classes, or simply doesn't want to; but is interested in self defense, not just forms...it would really benefit him to have had some training defending against ground and pound or a submission wrestler from the guard, should he ever find himself there.
If he's never been in that position before, chances of success are very low.
Some people will just find a partner and practice it if they feel they need it. (That's what I did.) Other people need an instructor to guide them, hold their hand.

Ask yourself this; how would 17th century Shaolin monks have gone about incorporating it? They would have gone out and found a teacher or invited one to come to them. They still do this today, I've heard stories from my Shaolin coach of hiking for three hours every day just to learn an arcane form from an obscure village master.

If you have a school hire a coach to teach your guys. Either way they're going to have to pay more, either in the inflated prices of your classes to cover the new hire or when they go out to learn at another school.

[bawang]

No, but it's not unrealistic to think that you may someday have an altercation with someone who has experience in BJJ or wrestling. The sheer number of people who train these makes it a real possibility.

its very unrealistic. street altercations are knife or gun always.


its very good and progressive to incorporate bjj into shaolin kung fu, but neither is about self defence.