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@Syn7
When did you change the topic from ground fighting? I missed the turning point.
Not talking about myself. You just never know who has a blade on them. Try wrestling the wrong guy on the street and you'll get stuck. Wrestling is not safe for the street.Originally Posted by JamesC
Don't encourage him Kellen. He's just teh deadly.
Registered User
Wrestling IS useful for the street. It's useful for:
-takedown defence
-getting your butt up from the ground
-quickly tossing your opponent on his butt so you can GTFO of dodge
NIII
because talking about one without the others is incomplete. Ground game means many things to many people. Some of what I can do standing I can do on the ground and vice versa. And when grappling is concerned, it's a part of all fighting. Even western boxing. There is a seamless transition thru all of these. If you don't get that, that's on you. If you do get it, then you should realize that you just asked a dumb question.
The topic started as a Shaolin thing, and of course it gravitated to a ground vs. stand thing by people with a bias and ultimately became about being well rounded which is the sprit of the original topic.
NIII
And power slams!!!! Ever seen a guy get a full shoulder slam on concrete? It's a thing of beauty!
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Actually I had a guy try to jump me and I quickly tossed him on his head. He went out like a light I waited around for the paramedics and told them he fell. Didn't think the poor guy needed any more trouble.
Shaolin Jinnaluo War Cult
And speaking of power slams...this clip is from an amateur MMA show in NY that one of my friends fought in, (not him in the clip). Check this total mismatch out...fight starts at 1:20.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVyNs8XmZ1I
Last edited by Kellen Bassette; 01-02-2013 at 02:04 AM. Reason: forgot the link
Shaolin Jinnaluo War Cult
Lol..if the guy's too out of it to tell his side of the story/know the difference, why not? Save the hassle of a police report...
I'm your Huckleberry
Had a prisoner try that with me once. Same thing. I suplexed him and he landed on the side of his face. And then he stayed there for a while.
It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb
Registered User
Obviously I was talking about from an offensive position. Going into a fight with the strategy of taking someone down to wrestle around for a lock or something could result in a sharp pain in the gut... It's not safe for street.
This topic is about incorporating ground fighting into Shaolin, but Shaolin already has concepts and principles for the areas of defense and position recovery you mentioned above. But again, the objective is survival not "winning". So we never go in to wrestle someone to the ground as they do on the mat.
Traditional Shaolin is well rounded already. Unfortunately most don't get that nowadays.
NIII
A, you can use wrestling in combination with weapons defense in order to subdue, escape or outright beat down an attacker. B A flower dancer that doesn't actually fight is far more likely to get stabbed than anyone else.
To an extent, but I see culture bias there too. And that's understandable considering the variables. It is what it is, and that's okay.
Last edited by Syn7; 01-02-2013 at 03:59 AM.
NIII
Whoops!
You know the kid is outta shape when he won't even take his shirt off.
Well at least the one cat had some fun.
Now picture that on concrete, see how fast he can take top position or push off and stand back up and tell me that isn't an effective street technique. If he has a knife don't charge in. If it's a hidden knife, you are in just as much danger dancing around with him thinking it's a fist fight. Anyone street saavy is aware of the variables and takes due consideration.
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My comment meant that you may not know someone has a blade. You just go to wrestle them and get a sharp pain in your gut without ever having seen the blade. That's why taking someone down offensively to roll on the street is not safe. You never know what they could have.
Even if you see they have a knife and you control their hand while wrestling them, the knife can switch hands in an instant and you're dead.
If you're suggesting wrestling to defend against a knife attack like this, I'd love to see a demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ah_0gia4A0
Personally I don't change my strategy. Stay aware of the knife, but don't chase it just as you shouldn't chase hands. Control their facing and strike mercilessly just as in regular stand up. Trying to wrestle around is going to get you killed almost certainly.
Registered User
Who trains Shaolin to develop self-defense skills?
Registered User
Lots of people, just probably not so much at all the "temples" where it's all forms and sanda training.
(. Y .)
There's truth in a lot of comments here... but -
When I think of the TCMA masters that scare me - they scare me because they have a mentality or conviction where they will kill you or die trying rather than lose to you. I don't see it often, but when you see it, you know it and that type of person doesn't need BJJ or Judo. They are extremely rare.
There's also the TCMA masters that propagate the idea of too deadly but don't understand and lack the conviction to be too deadly so "too deadly" becomes a joke or myth.
You've probably come across both types in your training. I think westerners will never have the conviction to be "too deadly" - so we have to be realistic and think well, what then? How do we teach that person to be at least proficient?
Lineage and name mean something in China, the one's that are the most dangerous are older and usually have their name tied to the lineage. It is the lineage. They are a dying breed.
The good modern kung fu wasn't for battlefields or gentlemanly tournaments. It was for back alley knife fights. Sharpened bamboo, melon cleavers, and motor cycle chain whips were the weapons of choice. Why do you think modern kung fu has so many eye pokes? You wouldn't be able to do that with helmets and armor.
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