Incorporating Ground Fighting in Shaolin

[bawang]

Really?

Two miles from my house a guy was beaten to death just last week. With someones fist. No weapons involved.

And I live in rural Arkansas. There are no knife laws in our state and everyone here has a gun of some kind.

hillbilly domestic violence is not the same as teh streets.

[bawang]

Horse Donk. I've seen ridiculous amounts of empty handed street fights. I've used my TMAs in some and I've seen others do the same.

That being said, I would always avoid them if possible, because of the possibility of a weapon, just ain't worth it.

i have seen stabbing beginning in second grade and heard gunshots every month. i have seen no empty handed street fights.

drunk weekend bar fights are not "self defence". its play time for big babies.

[Kellen Bassette]

i have seen stabbing beginning in second grade and heard gunshots every month. i have seen no empty handed street fights.

drunk weekend bar fights are not "self defence". its play time for big babies.

If someone tries to punch you in the face you have the option to try to defend yourself or not. In that moment it is irrelevant if he's a local bar tough, your gf's ex, a gang banger, a psycho or what have you.

Getting beat down is getting beat down. What difference does it make if it's in rural Arkansas or the mean streets of New Brunswick?

If you haven't seen empty handed street fights then I don't think you get around much.

[RJ797]

There is no question it makes sense to be able to grapple - standing and on the ground.

There is also no question it is not where you want a street fight to go if at all possible.

If the guy doesn't have a weapon, he may have a friend or two. Most likely they won’t stand and watch as you execute a smooth transition to a mount position so you can submit their buddy.

[wenshu]

Say your teaching a little Chi Gong before your self/defense/forms/sparring, whatever..you feel it's good and beneficial to your students. Most of them may be happy, but one wants more...you can tell him, "I studied these few exercises, but Chi Gong isn't my specialty, if you want to study it in more depth go train with an internal teacher...I teach this along with the external KF because I think it helps; but it's not my area of expertise."

A BJJ beginner clinic takes a hell of a lot longer than the 10-15 minutes it takes to run a group of students through a nei gong warm up. Otherwise you risk doing your students a grave disservice for several reasons not the least of which is the potential for false confidence without the appropriate amount of experience against resisting opponents in a controlled environment.

[JamesC]

hillbilly domestic violence is not the same as teh streets.

I think you're just trolling.

To say that no one ever gets attacked without the use of a weapon is retarded. I think you know better.

[wenshu]

I agree with bawang, talking about martial arts for self defense is to start from a losing proposition. Sure you might survive a few altercations but ultimately you're already dead.

If you are really serious about self defense get a concealed carry permit.

[Jimbo]

If you are really serious about self defense get a concealed carry permit.

Depending on the state you live in, much easier said than done. Not to mention the hassles of carrying a firearm everywhere you go, and the fact that a gun, even with training, does not make its owner invincible.

Empty-handed ability and awareness can be a great help when you're armed, as well. There are instances where it's invaluable and more appropriate to the situation. But the best self-defense, *whenever possible*, is to simply not be where the danger is.

Of course, anyone whose aim is to be a MA tough guy and gets into street fights for the purpose of testing himself out is an idiot who, sooner or later (mostly sooner), will end up as another statistic.

[GeneChing]

As for Shaolin Dog boxing, we ran an article titled Shaolin Dog Boxing: An Interview with Master Zaipei Lin by Chen Pengcheng in our Shaolin Special 2005 and Xiang Xing Quan: Inspiration from the Animal Kingdom by Stephen Chew and Xu Dezheng in our Shaolin Special 2007.

While Dog boxing is a form of groundfighting as advocates seldom fight while standing on two legs, it's not really groundfighting in the modern perspective of Judo/Jiu-Jitsu. There isn't that much grappling to Dog boxing, at least not in the same sense as with what we've been seeing in the cage. It's an over-generalization of the term 'groundboxing' to equate the two.

[Kellen Bassette]

A BJJ beginner clinic takes a hell of a lot longer than the 10-15 minutes it takes to run a group of students through a nei gong warm up. Otherwise you risk doing your students a grave disservice for several reasons not the least of which is the potential for false confidence without the appropriate amount of experience against resisting opponents in a controlled environment.

Well maybe it was a bad example...but it's really not that hard to learn to defend against ground and pound and escape or reverse and it's valuable to know. At the very least being in the situation and working it is beneficial.

[Kellen Bassette]

As for Shaolin Dog boxing, we ran an article titled Shaolin Dog Boxing: An Interview with Master Zaipei Lin by Chen Pengcheng in our Shaolin Special 2005 and Xiang Xing Quan: Inspiration from the Animal Kingdom by Stephen Chew and Xu Dezheng in our Shaolin Special 2007.

While Dog boxing is a form of groundfighting as advocates seldom fight while standing on two legs, it's not really groundfighting in the modern perspective of Judo/Jiu-Jitsu. There isn't that much grappling to Dog boxing, at least not in the same sense as with what we've been seeing in the cage. It's an over-generalization of the term 'groundboxing' to equate the two.

Is there anyone here who has actually ever trained this???

[pazman]

If people pick on you and you have bully problems, lift weights and do sanda.

If there are a lot of fights at the bar you go to, go to a different bar or don't go to a bar and go to the gym to lift instead.

If you live in a bad neighborhood and are afraid to walk alone at night, make more friends and/or move out of that neighborhood.

If you are a police officer, prison guard, security guard, etc., you need to be in shape and actively participate in an activity that physically and mentally tests you on a weekly basis. Some martial arts are good for this.

I'm just not sure why a person in North America would go through all the trouble to train Shaolin if their primary concern was self-defense.

[Golden Arms]

Is there anyone here who has actually ever trained this???

Dog Boxing itself seems rare, but several arts have at least one form or set of information in their curriculum that touches on this type of material. I have seen these sets in Hung Gar, Pak Mei, and Southern Mantis to name a few.

[Syn7]

There is no question it makes sense to be able to grapple - standing and on the ground.

There is also no question it is not where you want a street fight to go if at all possible.

If the guy doesn't have a weapon, he may have a friend or two. Most likely they won’t stand and watch as you execute a smooth transition to a mount position so you can submit their buddy.

No, but you can punch him in the mouth, suplex his ass, get back up and bomb on the next two guys while they're still working up their nerve. I've seen it. It can work and it can go badly for you. Just depends on the scenario. Just because you don't use wrestling everytime for everything doesn't mean it's less useful. I can say that for any style. Not saying you disagree with me, just using your post as a jumpoff.

[Syn7]

I agree with bawang, talking about martial arts for self defense is to start from a losing proposition. Sure you might survive a few altercations but ultimately you're already dead.

If you are really serious about self defense get a concealed carry permit.

That doesn't in any way suggest that any one skill is less useful than another. Assuming they can work, that is. Time and place. All I'm saying is that I have had times where wrestling saved my ass. I have also had times where wrestling would have been a bad idea. I can also say that 98% of the fights I've been in or seen invoved grappling on some level.

If you are out there looking for trouble, you will find it. But if you just wanna throw down with friends or protect yourself if the need should arise, being a well rounded practitioner with a decent knowledge of all ranges and all options within said ranges along with a working knowledge of how to transition between those states is the smart way to go. This includes weapons.

Does anyone think grapplers who use their stuff never thought, hmmm what would I do if maybe he had a knife, or got one passed me and caught me by surprise???


Naw, fuck a CnC. Wear that thing on your hip.