Some guys have talent in form

[RenDaHai]

There's a huge difference between shadowboxing and forms practice from a pedagogical standpoint, and that's significant as 'how to best train' is the key question on all our minds. On the highest levels, just like with jazz and classical, it's just music. For example, look how often the Marsalis Brothers play classical. In the martial arts, or any art for that matter, it can be the same. However, like classical, TMA forms are a laborious process, laden with the cultural baggage we call tradition. In today's fast food nation, tradition is becoming more devalued, but there in lies the root of our culture, the logic that underpins our thinking.

Aww shoot. I just got interrupted by work and forgot where I was going with that.

I think I see where you were going.

Shouba are the individual units of form, we can freestyle these together and that is essential traditional training. But the extended compositions are a little different.

Pedagogy encounters the limits of science. Explaining art and learning. You see we can never 'see' inside our subconscious minds. As soon as we bring thought into the conscious we change it. It would take the greatest advancement of science to lift the veil and understand the thought process, but even when we do, you cannot possibly do it in realtime for your own mind. As I say, when you bring it into logic space you change it.

Why am I saying this? Because if science and logic cannot bridge the gap between conscious and unconscious, between Xin and Yi, then what can? We need a language to communicate with our shadow selves.

Art, imagery, mythology, music. These aspects of our culture communicate directly to our instincts. They do it effortlessly. When teaching a child a moral lesson, do you lecture him on ethics? No, you tell him a story. A fable which contains a moral lesson, and without conscious acceptance he understands because the imagery of mythology speaks directly to his instincts. Music can unlock an emotion without a single lyric.

As it is with aspects of our ancient culture. They convey messages forever hidden to our logical abstraction. The forms, Taolu of Kung Fu are such a thing. At the peak of your practice you play in harmony with your inner self and this communication is more valuable to you than any possession. And there are lessons to be learned from aspects of culture that cannot be distilled from their traditions. Not hidden applications nor cruel strategies, but some wordless yet undeniable wisdom.

[GeneChing]

...but seeing as my earlier post was so two hours ago and I haven't returned to that lost thought whatever it was and I still have other things to attend to so I can't really spare the grey matter to go back for it, we'll go with it and just let it ride.

Thanks for the assist, RDH!

[SPJ]

This guy's forms is very pleasant to watch. What else do you expect from a good form?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85tdZYkMQWI

If you still train forms, what do you think about his form?

Yan Qing leg

There are also good hand drills

and qin na 2 man drills

Great.

[JamesC]

I watched a short clip of Zhou Bao-Fu talking about the way they train forms. I liked their take on it.

Essentially you only vaguely go through the movements for a while until you have the entire thing completely memorized and won't be confused. A real lazy performance, really.

This is in contrast to a lot of schools that teach you a couple moves at a time and expect you to learn them completely and demonstrate them completely at full speed and power before you learn the next technique.

[jdhowland]

I watched a short clip of Zhou Bao-Fu talking about the way they train forms. I liked their take on it.

Essentially you only vaguely go through the movements for a while until you have the entire thing completely memorized and won't be confused. A real lazy performance, really.

This is in contrast to a lot of schools that teach you a couple moves at a time and expect you to learn them completely and demonstrate them completely at full speed and power before you learn the next technique.

Interesting. I was taught to do this as an aid to memorization for some of our longer sets. The idea was to do the form quickly without completing each move or fully developing the stances in order to concentrate on the set-as-process and transitions. Then the individual moves would be practiced repeatedly with good form.

[Robinhood]

I watched a short clip of Zhou Bao-Fu talking about the way they train forms. I liked their take on it.

Essentially you only vaguely go through the movements for a while until you have the entire thing completely memorized and won't be confused. A real lazy performance, really.

This is in contrast to a lot of schools that teach you a couple moves at a time and expect you to learn them completely and demonstrate them completely at full speed and power before you learn the next technique.

He is right, that is how you should do it, if you want to develop yourself, do it the other way and you develop the look good outside look, with empty shell. But forms are not an efficient way to develop anyway, more of a way of passing on movements.