Some observations on TCMA

[RenDaHai]

That's really the same thing I said.

The techniques you use to resist need to be effective on a resisting opponent.

Kinda, they need to be effective against an aggressive opponent. You need him to be relentless in his goal of hurting you, cause thats how stuff tends to go down.

Dude, most of the pictures above aren't Kung Fu.

[bawang]

TMA is made up of low percentage moves. They might work sometimes. Sometimes spinning back fists or jumping back kicks have been used successfully in MMA. That doesn't mean they're effective moves.

kung fu was revived to make money.

kung fu was revived to make money.

kung fu became popular because of movies. people didnt become interested in kung fu to fight. they were hypnotized by a fantasy, by the imagery of the movies. so its not unusual for tma to teach unrealistic moves. this is what people ultimately want.

america is the land of opportunity. people try to find supply and demand.

if you want to chase that elusive feeling you saw from the movies, its gonna be a tough journey.

[mawali]

I am just the MA dunce but I see the same punch/kick scenario is Karata, TKD, etc, in other arts that go beyond those scenarios:

In the silat suffian link, the straight line punch is evident with kick but it is used far more 'cleverly; without any qi tricks and stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB4W9pQBvyE

[Kellen Bassette]

apologies !!

Unnecessary

[Kellen Bassette]

I hate to say this but,

You have to be careful because - Kids will ruin a fighting school.


It's a dangerous thing to allow children if you want to have a fighting school. Once children are allowed, you walk a dangerous path if you want to retain fighting.

Just saying.

Yes...yes..yes..if you teach kids you have to keep it separate...you can't train children properly for fighting in the modern west. If you have kids in the class with adults, you can forget about the fighting aspect.

I actually see some local MMA schools advertising and gearing towards kids. I wonder how they resolve this conflict of interest.

[Kellen Bassette]

Proper training against resisting opponents will also help you learn what techniques work.

Much of the stuff you learn in TMA (notice I didn't say specifically TCMA) doesn't work, but the only way to learn this is to train against resisting opponents.

It all works great when your training partner leaves his arm extended after a punch that wasn't even going to hit you anyway.

This is all true. It's a major complaint I have with many TMA schools. Not so much that they engage in this training, but when they forgo the better traditional methods for this kind of stuff.

[bawang]

This is all true. It's a major complaint I have with many TMA schools. Not so much that they engage in this training, but when they forgo the better traditional methods for this kind of stuff.

as long as tma is a money making business, it will always be like this.

[Kellen Bassette]

Holding static stances and doing poses is not effective for fighting. But again, here is where some can't distinguish form and application...and yes you have to train application, (conditioning and testing on resisting opponents) for it to be effective.
Your supposed to do both traditionally...many only do the poses now, but many also train the martial aspect.

I think it was you that posted the fighter in the boxing/mma style fighting stance. This is traditional. It's the same thing as Gung Bu. Gung Bu is just an exaggeration to train the leg muscles and rooting. It's understood you don't stand in Gung Bu and fight. And yes, you need to train it in the fighting version as well.

Even so Gung Bu, in the large frame, is constantly used in fighting. It's the end of a technique. The split second where you connect when moving in for a strike, before recovering to a fighting stance, or continuing your attack.

And your right that you can't just stand in Gung Bu and fight like that. You can't just train like that. But in the TMAs I've trained, Chinese and otherwise, that was always understood; and the natural fighting stance was always used.

[YouKnowWho]

What I like about TCMA is it's detail training method.

After you have "developed" your leg lift throw from partner drills,

http://imageshack.us/a/img831/4315/linleglift.jpg

you can use solo drill to "polish" it.

http://imageshack.us/a/img835/4435/leglift1.jpg

and weight equipment to "enhance" it.

http://imageshack.us/a/img718/1716/s...eadleglift.jpg

[LaRoux]

It's the same thing as Gung Bu. Gung Bu is just an exaggeration to train the leg muscles and rooting. It's understood you don't stand in Gung Bu and fight. And yes, you need to train it in the fighting version as well.

Even so Gung Bu, in the large frame, is constantly used in fighting. It's the end of a technique. The split second where you connect when moving in for a strike, before recovering to a fighting stance, or continuing your attack.

Holding Gung Bu for in exaggerated postures or for extended amounts of time is what makes it one of those inefficient techniques that Ironfist was talking about.

[LaRoux]

In the silat suffian link, the straight line punch is evident with kick but it is used far more 'cleverly; without any qi tricks and stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB4W9pQBvyE

Same old stuff that doesn't work against someone not letting you do it.

[Kellen Bassette]

Holding Gung Bu for in exaggerated postures or for extended amounts of time is what makes it one of those inefficient techniques that Ironfist was talking about.

Well it's not going to do you much good if that's the only thing your working on. I happen to feel it has value because it's great for building leg strength. Of course there are many means to that same end. You can do that traditional exercise, or a myriad of other exercises.

My main point is, things have to be taken in context. You don't see a boxer hitting a speed bag and say "that's ridiculous, who punches like that?" Now if you think certain training methods are inefficient or pointless, that's one thing...but it seems like a lot of the detractors, having any kind of MAs background at all, should know better and just go out of their way to take things out of context.

[EarthDragon]

Originally Posted by mawali View Post

In the silat suffian link, the straight line punch is evident with kick but it is used far more 'cleverly; without any qi tricks and stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB4W9pQBvyE


laroux

Same old stuff that doesn't work against someone not letting you do it.

Are you saying that as straight punch and front kick doesn't work ? LOL

[MightyB]

Holding Gung Bu for in exaggerated postures or for extended amounts of time is what makes it one of those inefficient techniques that Ironfist was talking about.

Depends. I used to wonder how my Sifu was able to relax his hips and waist so much to be able to yield against close quarter shots and to deliver hard shots from such a close distance. It's all in the leg strength. He's always telling us to relax, relax the hips - like I said I couldn't figure it out for years, then it occurred to me that we, as students, didn't have the leg strength to keep a low stance and relax in the hips.

[MightyB]

even wrestling does static leg strength training.