Some observations on TCMA

[YouKnowWho]

The easiest way to get a black belt in Judo is to compete. Win tourneys, get a black belt. It's a pretty simple concept - the guys who can show they know Judo by doing Judo and winning at Judo, get a black belt. It's possible to walk into a tourney, kick arse as a brown, and have a higher ranking black belt promote you to black on the spot.

That's the same policy as used in ACSCA. After you have obtained your blue belt (any local instructor can offer blue belt), if you can win the 1st or 2nd place in national event, you can obtain your 1st degree black belt that way (black belt can only be offered by ACSCA). In ACSCA, even if you may obtain your 1st degree by skill testing, without winning 1st of 2nd place in tournament, the 2nd degree black belt will block you forever. Only good tournament record can help you to pass the 2nd degree black belt.

I like this policy. If one doesn't compete in tournament, his 1st degree black belt will be his lifetime limitation.

[pazman]

No. Even if you haven't been in a formal competition, you'd still have been in countless in school and inter school randori / shiai sessions by the time you were ready to test for Shodan.

It's pretty much the same, at least in the organization which we belong to which is the Konan Assoc.

The easiest way to get a black belt in Judo is to compete. Win tourneys, get a black belt. It's a pretty simple concept - the guys who can show they know Judo by doing Judo and winning at Judo, get a black belt. It's possible to walk into a tourney, kick arse as a brown, and have a higher ranking black belt promote you to black on the spot.

That's good to know.

Anytime discussions of rank in TCMA get brought up, it pays to take a good long look at the original ranking systems like Judo and Kendo.

[pazman]

That's the same policy as used in ACSCA. After you have obtained your blue belt (any local instructor can offer blue belt), if you can win the 1st or 2nd place in national event, you can obtain your 1st degree black belt that way (black belt can only be offered by ACSCA). In ACSCA, even if you may obtain your 1st degree by techniques testing, without winning 1st of 2nd place in tournament, the 2nd degree black belt will block you forever. Only good tournament record can help you to pass the 2nd degree black belt.

I like this policy. If you don't compete in tournament, your 1st degree black belt will be your limitation for the rest of your life.

That's really cool. Mr. Wang, do you know of any organizations offering something similar with Sanda?

[YouKnowWho]

That's really cool. Mr. Wang, do you know of any organizations offering something similar with Sanda?

The ACSCA promotes Sanda as the final integration of kick, punch, lock, throw, follow on strike. Some local branches have integrated ground game. Some local branches still only emphasize on stand up game.

[Kellen Bassette]

I like this policy. If one doesn't compete in tournament, his 1st degree black belt will be his lifetime limitation.

I like the tough standards for BB in BJJ and Judo...I wish it was the same across the board in TMA. You have some schools where a BB really means something; and a lot where it doesn't.

I still prefer the traditional way of no ranks. But if your going to use a rank it shouldn't be taken lightly or simply given out for time with the teacher.

[YouKnowWho]

Your rank can be your mental burden. One of my guys has been with me for 10 years. He just obtained his blue belt from me last year. He told me that when he weared his white belt to test his skill in local MMA gym, he had great time because he won't feel any pressure. One MMA gym asked him to teach there the moment that he will receive his black belt. That make him to feel good.

[MightyB]

I like the tough standards for BB in BJJ and Judo...I wish it was the same across the board in TMA. You have some schools where a BB really means something; and a lot where it doesn't.

I still prefer the traditional way of no ranks. But if your going to use a rank it shouldn't be taken lightly or simply given out for time with the teacher.

tough to change this because it's so arbitrary and we're operating within a system where a style is really just a body of knowledge that you accumulate - technically you've mastered that style when you learn all that's there to learn. There's no requirement to actually be able to use it on someone and there's no overall league or organization to set a standard or host competitions.

Judo and BJJ are both relatively new as martial arts and they're strictly regulated with centralized leadership. That makes it easy to set across the board standards for people to follow. Plus both are competition heavy and focused.

[Kellen Bassette]

Your rank can be your mental burden.

That's for sure...Go spar at someone else's school where they know you are a BB...it puts a lot of pressure on you to perform well...you really hate to get caught by a lower rank.

I try not to think that way...in the end it's two grown men trying to hit each other and not get hit. What belt you have around your waist doesn't make the difference; but there are expectations that come with it.

[Kellen Bassette]

tough to change this because it's so arbitrary and we're operating within a system where a style is really just a body of knowledge that you accumulate - technically you've mastered that style when you learn all that's there to learn. There's no requirement to actually be able to use it on someone and there's no overall league or organization to set a standard or host competitions.

Judo and BJJ are both relatively new as martial arts and they're strictly regulated with centralized leadership. That makes it easy to set across the board standards for people to follow. Plus both are competition heavy and focused.

Unfortunately, I don't see the problem ever being resolved entirely. But hopefully more organizations within TMA will apply pressure on their members to make their rank meaningful. The more schools where a BB is a serious accomplishment, the better for all MA.

[EarthDragon]

speaking as school owner, its hard to rely on income off MA lesson alone, but most try to do therefore they must sell out, teach kids, promote students whom arent ready, turn out sub par students, lower standards etc etc.

I fortunately use my school as part time income if theirs any at the end of the month if there is any
I only teach adults an we train hard and no ones rides for free or ranked that doesnt deserve it.

I have lost students because they failed thier tests couldn't perform an application or just didnt do it good enough. most teaches pass their student prematurely to give them a false sense of security and make them feel like they are climbing the sash ladder. we dont do sashes just material you need to know to learn more. this keeps everything smoother in my opinion

[Kellen Bassette]

speaking as school owner, its hard to rely on income off MA lesson alone, but most try to do therefore they must sell out, teach kids, promote students whom arent ready, turn out sub par students, lower standards etc etc.

I fortunately use my school as part time income if theirs any at the end of the month if there is any
I only teach adults an we train hard and no ones rides for free or ranked that doesnt deserve it.

I have lost students because they failed thier tests couldn't perform an application or just didnt do it good enough. most teaches pass their student prematurely to give them a false sense of security and make them feel like they are climbing the sash ladder. we dont do sashes just material you need to know to learn more. this keeps everything smoother in my opinion

Well there's nothing wrong with teaching kids...but it's hard to run an adult class smoothly unless you keep the kids separate. Most younger kids just don't have the attention span and can't focus on a long serious class. It does bother me when I see a 12 year old with a BB though. Even if he's been training since 5, he's 12, hard to take him as a dangerous fighter.

I think a lot of teachers don't like to pass someone up for promotion more than once or twice. I get the position they're in, but still...maybe it's not a bad idea for the BB and above ranks to require outside testing from some organization. It would be tough with so many different styles/schools, but if you had to test before a panel of strangers, they wouldn't feel any emotional/financial need to promote you.

[EarthDragon]

It does bother me when I see a 12 year old with a BB though.

uggg its the worst. I wouldn't give a BB to anyone under the age of 18 even if they trained with me since childhood.

maybe it's not a bad idea for the BB and above ranks to require outside testing from some organization. It would be tough with so many different styles/schools, but if you had to test before a panel of strangers, they wouldn't feel any emotional/financial need to promote you.

this SHOULD be the standard for all schools. I do all my testing until Gold mantis our BB perse, then the AMCA American Chinese Martial Arts Federation takes over the high level testing.
Its out of my hands even if its my student. This way I am not part of his promotion or rank.

I cant believe other schools dont have this. It should be the standard.

Its the same as when I judge I WILL not judge my student.

1 I dont wan tot be biased
2 I would be harder on him then anyone else so its no a fair for him

[pazman]

this SHOULD be the standard for all schools. I do all my testing until Gold mantis our BB perse, then the AMCA American Chinese Martial Arts Federation takes over the high level testing.
Its out of my hands even if its my student. This way I am not part of his promotion or rank.

What does the examination cover? What makes them objective?

[EarthDragon]

its brutal, it about a 6 and a half hour test (cumulative). all in Chinese

it starts with the physical fitness which is ridiculously hard then you start from when you joined the basics and go through static postures body coordination's the 8's upper hands fists palms elbows etc etc and then lower, knees high kicks, kick blocks etc etc then you perform application to the 8 and there 8 so thats 512 applications then onto 8 forms, then application to the 8 forms too many to count LOL then shuai jiao's 40 throws, then all joint locking taji 108 then 108 applications.

1 hour break for food, then shower change eat and then writing test when you go onto the internal side and medical side. full anatomy bone setting tui na acupuncture acupressure point medince etc etc you are truly a shrfu by the time you reach this level.

I have students in there 9th and 11th year and not quite there yet. it took me 6 and half years but the advantage I lived at the HQ school in SF for year and 8 months after training in NY for 5 so I got to train 5 hours a day 7 days a week every day didnt have to work as I went there to become a shrfu and open up a school plus I had 14 years MA experience and a BB in a Japanese art prior

[pazman]

its brutal, it about a 6 and a half hour test (cumulative). all in Chinese

it starts with the physical fitness which is ridiculously hard then you start from when you joined the basics and go through static postures body coordination's the 8's upper hands fists palms elbows etc etc and then lower, knees high kicks, kick blocks etc etc then you perform application to the 8 and there 8 so thats 512 applications then onto 8 forms, then application to the 8 forms too many to count LOL then shuai jiao's 40 throws, then all joint locking taji 108 then 108 applications.

1 hour break for food, then shower change eat and then writing test when you go onto the internal side and medical side. full anatomy bone setting tui na acupuncture acupressure point medince etc etc you are truly a shrfu by the time you reach this level.

I have students in there 9th and 11th year and not quite there yet. it took me 6 and half years but the advantage I lived at the HQ school in SF for year and 8 months after training in NY for 5 so I got to train 5 hours a day 7 days a week every day didnt have to work as I went there to become a shrfu and open up a school plus I had 14 years MA experience and a BB in a Japanese art prior

No sparring?

That's interesting about the medicine though...what accreditation does the association have in claiming to teach medicine?