TCMA discussion Part dieux

[MightyB]

The other thread got too long and too filled with the same ol' MMA TCMA bullsh!t.

Stop with the bullsh!t and start talking about what works in TCMA.

What works? I'll start

Weapons training as long as you do some live drilling.
Shuai Jiao
some chin na
San Da


Then start talking about what works for you?

the development exercises both external and internal. I prefer the dynamic tension breath control stuff and hitting things.

What could we ad to bring the TCMA tradition into the modern paradigm?

ground work (not necessarily bjj)
more all-range sparring.


What seems archaic in a modern context but still is appealing to you?

Lion dancing
the multitude of forms
exotic weaponry

Now ask yourself about what you are doing for your martial experience. Does it align with what you want to do and where you're going on your martial journey? If not, there's an American Indian saying that you all have to learn. "If the horse is dead, dismount."

[MightyB]

I guess it comes down to a personal priority list.

Make a list of most important to least important and train accordingly. Hopefully your school will allow you to train in that way. It doesn't mean you can buck the system or tradition, but you should be able to weight your priorities. Just be sure to discuss your goals and expectations with your instructor. Never lose sight of your goals and expectations and periodically do performance reviews. If you're not hitting your goals, then something's wrong. The horse is dead, dismount. Be picky, it's your life and your time. Don't be an a-hole and be realistic, but don't expect that father always knows best. If you're not getting what you want out of your MA experience and you've given the methods a fair shake - dismount. You're being led astray!

[pazman]

A lot of TCMA teachers claim their boxing skills are based on sword or spear principles, then fail to ever teach sword or spear. Why not teach those things first, or hand-in-hand with boxing? Why are learning weapons considered to be "black belt material"?

I don't think there is any pressure on CMA schools to teach ground skills any more than people would expect to learn those things from a boxing or muay thai school. If you like BJJ or submission wrestling, then I guess you are free to have a class in your gym if you are qualified.

If I were to run a gongfu school open to the public, I would offer the following skills in a concise, three year syllabus, to be taught side-by-side:

Sanda
Spear sparring
Weightifting

After a student became proficient in these, if there was interest, forms, qigong, exotic weapons, etc, would be taught.

[EarthDragon]

what amuses me, is the MMA guys are always trying to say there art is better and TCMA is inferior and they truly believe it, yet they spend countless hours trying go to convince people otherwise.
I would say if you have a gun you don't need to argue with a guy who has a knife.

What works?

any technique that you train realistically and are able to do with instinct and precision.

Then start talking about what works for you?

see above, for me I am a fighter street and ring, I use what I know works and what I know I can pull off based on the circumstance and what I am good at. Redirecting, attacking high to go low, using angles, my speed, throwing "Im 6'2 238" so I have some size behind me. so for the most part I have a lot of strength. woks well also the way I carry myself people always say you walk with such confidence, this is part of the game in of itself, have you ever looked at someone adn thought man he looks tough? what does that mean actually.

the development exercises both external and internal. I prefer the dynamic tension breath control stuff and hitting things.

developing internal skills is a must, using coiling and jing are essential. conditioning is also important.

What could we ad to bring the TCMA tradition into the modern paradigm?

cross training, leanr somethign outside the box

What seems archaic in a modern context but still is appealing to you?

archaic things like certain weapons, blocks meant to defend from horse attacks defending weapons techniques, not appealing.. just for me archaic not to be trained in modern these days.

[Syn7]

Dieux is plural for god. Deux is 2. Anyways.....

What works?
I find the things that work best are the more simple techniques that can be complicated in series but alone are very easy to understand and have a high percentage of success even when the other guy knows what you are doing. I'm not really picky about where something comes from and what the history behind it is. As long as it works well for me, I'm cool with it.

Then start talking about what works for you?

I have a grappling background that pre dates my striking background, so I really like clinch fighting and grappling in general.
But if somebody wants to dance, I like that because typically I feel I have more avenues of escape should things go bad for me. In a clinch, when it gets bad, it's BAD! Ya know what I mean. I'd rather get drilled and pushed back than grappled and dropped. Either way tho, getting hit too hard sucks, lol.

What could we ad to bring the TCMA tradition into the modern paradigm?

I like to try new things and see how to work them. I'm open to looking at whatever(within reason). I like what works for me. What fits into MY style. So I don't really think in a way that can answer this question. If it works, great.



What seems archaic in a modern context but still is appealing to you?

Ahhh, so many things. And not just in MA's. But it's all pretty much intellectual curiosity. I don't spend much time practicing with zero benefit. Again, if I can make it work in a reasonable amount of time and see progress, I'm down for whatever.

For the record, I see great benefit in lion dancing that is directly applicable to MA's. So yeah, it's old, but it's veryy useful and pretty fun too.

Now ask yourself about what you are doing for your martial experience. Does it align with what you want to do and where you're going on your martial journey? If not, there's an American Indian saying that you all have to learn. "If the horse is dead, dismount."

I'm on a life journey. I'm happy with it. I'm in control of it. I could do more, but not without giving up other things I am not willing to give up. So it is what it is. I haven't been hurt by anyone since I was a teen. I'm healthy, agile. Still an acrobat(granted I am not as I was. I don't rock out double backs for fun anymore.), still a b-boy. So yeah I would say I'm satisfied. As satisfied as I can be in my situation anyways. I mean I would love more time in the day to do more, but you know, it is what it is. My academic studies mos def interfere with my general physical health though. But it's not forever and I'm still more active than the majority of the people around me. I guess my biggest fear is early abuse affecting old age. Tumbling isn't exactly good for you in a few ways. I know I'ma feel that shit later. And rocking out airflares half cut on a hardwood floor has it's price too. Especially when you're learning. With breakin, sometimes you have to just go for it to get it down. Some stuff you just can't walk thru. Same for some of the higher impact parts of MA's.

[bawang]

sanda rules with mma gloves. allow prolonged wrestling. problem solved.

[Kellen Bassette]

sanda rules with mma gloves. allow prolonged wrestling. problem solved.

The man is a genius.

[EarthDragon]

LOL now on the other thread the MMA guys are saying you dont need static posture or leg strengthening exercises as they are ineffective for fighting............... Is that because there always on the ground? lol this dead horse should be glue by now

[YouKnowWho]

LOL now on the other thread the MMA guys are saying you dont need static posture or leg strengthening exercises as they are ineffective for fighting............... Is that because there always on the ground? lol this dead horse should be glue by now

If you wrestle for 15 rounds and move around in low stance all the time, you will find out that your legs will be tired. Whoever has stronger legs and can still move around quickly will win the last 5 rounds.

When ground game is involved, many people take the short cut. Instead of learning a perfect "hip throw" that require "horse stance" training,

http://cdn2.judoinfo.com/images/anim...lue/ogoshi.htm

or a "shoulder" throw that require "bow-arrow stance" training:

http://cdn2.judoinfo.com/images/anim...seoiotoshi.htm

or a "leg lift" throw that requires "golden rooster stance" training,

http://cdn2.judoinfo.com/images/anim...e/uchimata.htm

people will just use "pull guard" or "jump guard" that require no stance training at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMB3ToJPXzM

It's not fair to say that stance training is no longer important just because some people don't train throwing skill any more.

[David Jamieson]

posture and stance training is key to strength and balance as many who have put in the effort know.

to discard it is to sell yourself short, not the training.

It is not the only way to get balance an strength, but it is an effective way and anyone, I mean anyone who writes it off is just shooting off their mouth an blathering out of ignorance and you know what? There is NO shortage of that kind of attitude in martial arts pontificaters. lol

group a takes shots at group b and vice versa.
Talk is cheap, training will teach you more.

[IronFist]

LOL now on the other thread the MMA guys are saying you dont need static posture or leg strengthening exercises as they are ineffective for fighting............... Is that because there always on the ground? lol this dead horse should be glue by now

It's because static stance training, beyond the first few minutes, doesn't do anything other than build endurance at a specific joint angle, which is not applicable for fighting, unless you are spending a lot of time in that stance.

Want strong legs? Do progressive resistance training (squat, deadlift, kettlebells, etc.). These things all increase the amount of tension you can generate which means you can kick harder and lift heavier things (and people).

Want endurance for fighting? Spar, or do Tabata interval type stuff, or kettlebell rounds. Distance running won't do it, btw.

Want to be able to hold a stance for a long period of time? Do stance training.

Your body adapts to what you make it do. As the resistance is not increased with stance training, you don't get stronger from doing it (beyond the first few minutes due to some initial adaptation).

Kung fu seems to have its own form of bro science. It needs a better name, though. Any suggestions?

[IronFist]

Examples of kung fu bro science:

- stance training makes you a better fighter
- qigong lets you absorb blows with mystic energy
- weights make you big/slow/inflexible
- training against a willing partner who leaves his punches extended develops useful defense skills that will actually work in real life

Just to be fair, here are some examples of bro science:

- upper/lower abs
- you can change the shape of a muscle by the range of motion you use (such as focusing on the top portion of the movement to form a biceps peak)
- spot reduction
- a pump is indicative of a good workout and/or muscle growth

[Frost]

[QUOTE=IronFist;1206857].

Want endurance for fighting? Spar, or do Tabata interval type stuff, or kettlebell rounds. Distance running won't do it, btw.

/QUOTE]

since you hacve said this can you please show the scientific rational that proves tabatas are better for fighting endurance than distance running?

Studies showing tabatas positive effect on heart rate variability, power output throughout a fight, effect on recovery between rounds would be great, likewise studies showing the negative effect of distance running on the above would also be greatc

I mean since you have stated this you must have read some evidence to back it up right?

[IronFist]

Let me see if I can find it.

Tabata type training more closely mimics the energy expenditure in a fight than does long distance running.

Of course, sparring is the best bet.

Boxing/fighting is more anaerobic than aerobic, so an aerobic activity like distance running won't help much.

[Syn7]

For the record, anyone in MMA does a ton of leg strengthening whether they are smart enough to realize it or not. You think that guy dragging the sled is just doing cardio? Or how bout countless rounds of wrestling? Even practicing kicks on the pads is leg strengthening. Whether you do squats, stand on one leg, do mandarin duck drills, imitate a crane on plum stakes, pull a sled etc ect it all strengthens the body.


I practice standing on one leg on curbs or balance beam type objects all the time. I shift my weight and try to use my ankles to correct as much as I can. I've been doing that since I was a little kid. It's not just leg strengthening tho, it's also about weight distribution and mechanics. I do one handed handstands for the same reasons minus the ankle part, you can switch that to torso. In this case the wrist doesn't play a part the way the ankle does. You plant sink counter and stay. If it's a struggle, you aren't there. Once there I shift my mass to strengthen in the same way as with the ankle. Anyone else do this stuff too?