TCMA discussion Part dieux

[Syn7]

Boxing/fighting is more anaerobic than aerobic, so an aerobic activity like distance running won't help much.

Won't help EXACTLY what much? You think having a good aerobic system doesn't help in MA's? Ofcourse you need to train the other systems, but I wouldn't just toss out aerobic like that. It has a ton of benefits that indirectly help you fight better and should you need to last longer, I personally believe it's nice to actually be able to.


You think Aerobic exercise isn't essential to prepare for a 12 round boxing match? Or a long grueling street fight? Or a long wrestling match? Or even a short one for that matter.

[Frost]

Let me see if I can find it.

Tabata type training more closely mimics the energy expenditure in a fight than does long distance running.

Of course, sparring is the best bet.

Boxing/fighting is more anaerobic than aerobic, so an aerobic activity like distance running won't help much.

really so you are arguing that a sport that can last up to 5 x 5 minute rounds, (not to mention the pre fight warm up which can be up to 30 minutes) is more anearobic than aerobic? again please state the heart rate research showing this across a typical 5 minute round

and you think a 5 minute fight is 20 seconds of all out work at 170% of your V02 max, with only 10 seconds of slower pass repeated over and over...which fights have you been watching? again can you post the motion studies done showing fights are like this, because most fights i have seen are short (under 10 seconds) burst of high activity (heavy combinations, a takedown attempt, ground and pound attack etc, with a recovery much longer than that where fighters move round, rest on the cage or the floor

ANd who said distance running cant be anearobic anyway?

where do you get this stuff?

[MightyB]

This threads about what works in TCMA. If you want to bash TCMA, start your own thread and call it "TCMA sucks because:" and then bash it to your hearts delight.

[Syn7]

Energy systems are very appropriate in a "what works in tcma" conversation, no?

[bawang]

if obeseity is a disease, then muscular atrophy should also be a disease.

[EarthDragon]

MY GOD the MMA/ TMCA haters are following us frpom board to board like bitter Jehovah witnesses preaching why our religion is not good enough as thiers....

Ironfist

It's because static stance training, beyond the first few minutes, doesn't do anything other than build endurance at a specific joint angle, which is not applicable for fighting, unless you are spending a lot of time in that stance.

[/QUOTE]

I usually like and read your posts and responses but it seems now as you are just talking out your a$$. Whatever we say that we do you say thats not good for fighting you gotta do it this way for it to be effective.

PLEASE post some video of you fighting so the board may see what you mean and how you move PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE this will end the discussion once and forall

[SoCo KungFu]

LOL now on the other thread the MMA guys are saying you dont need static posture or leg strengthening exercises as they are ineffective for fighting............... Is that because there always on the ground? lol this dead horse should be glue by now

No, I believe he was saying that static postures are not a good means of developing leg strength. What was it you were saying about arguing logic when one person is unarmed?

[LaRoux]

really so you are arguing that a sport that can last up to 5 x 5 minute rounds, (not to mention the pre fight warm up which can be up to 30 minutes) is more anearobic than aerobic? again please state the heart rate research showing this across a typical 5 minute round

and you think a 5 minute fight is 20 seconds of all out work at 170% of your V02 max, with only 10 seconds of slower pass repeated over and over...which fights have you been watching? again can you post the motion studies done showing fights are like this, because most fights i have seen are short (under 10 seconds) burst of high activity (heavy combinations, a takedown attempt, ground and pound attack etc, with a recovery much longer than that where fighters move round, rest on the cage or the floor

ANd who said distance running cant be anearobic anyway?

where do you get this stuff?

Distance running isn't very efficient for training high intensity fighting done in 5 minute rounds. If you are going to running training for this, interval training is much better.

Specific Adaptations to Imposed Demands (SAID) is the principle that underlies all efficient training methods.

Distance running for high intensity fighting violates this principle, as does holding stances.

[Kellen Bassette]

Why do boxers and Muay Thai guys do distance running?

[Frost]

Why do boxers and Muay Thai guys do distance running?

because the following all rely on a good aerobic system
1) how fast you recovery between rounds
2) how quickly you can recover from an alactic burst and repeat it
3) How much power you can produce at your threshold before going lactic
4) how low your resting heart rate is

3 and 4 are interlinked, the lower your resting heart rate the more work you can do before going lactic, the higher your power output at your threshold is the harder and longer you can hit before going lactic (and when you o go lactic you gas quicker)

Not to mention MMA fight camp training (and any fight camp training for that matter) is the hardest thing you can do to your body, aerobic work helps you to recover between sessions and not be over trained. definition of overtrained?? go watch an episode of TUF they have hard grappling matches, hard sparring and hard interval sessions right up to their elimination fights...then they gas in the first 5 minutes...go figure

No where did i say intervals werent useful, i asked for tabata research to show its better for mma training than long distance work (tabatas are one form of interval, and i think for MMA a terrible one but willing to be proved wrong by the research)

[Kellen Bassette]

La Roux thinks distance running is an archaic training method that serves no use in fighting. Or maybe that's only when they do it in TCMA, as opposed to when they do it in sport fighting.

I'm beginning to see how this works.

[EarthDragon]

SoCo
[QUOTE]

No, I believe he was saying that static postures are not a good means of developing leg strength.

no....his point and his actual quote, not what you interpreted said was because TCMA does it its ineffective for fighting. not leg strength

[Frost]

This threads about what works in TCMA. If you want to bash TCMA, start your own thread and call it "TCMA sucks because:" and then bash it to your hearts delight.

What works? If you are referring to combat then simple basic techniques which allow you to issue maximum force and take your opponents head off. Simple Overhands, long range uppercuts, long range hooks punches stiff jabs and crosses, all of which can be found in my experience in CLF and hung gar as well as the MMA and thai I train. Footwork patterns involving slipping to the side, moving in and out and sideways, as long as you work them against an opponent trying to hit you.
What else working for fighting? , progressive sparring allowing you to use those simple techniques and footwork against a resisting opponent both with and without safety equipment.

Other things that work grappling and clinch fighting (call it sticky hands, bridge work etc I don’t care as long as you allow it to flow into and out of grappling and throwing range it works), both with and without strikes: short power punches and palm strikes, forearm hits and elbows, knee strikes to the legs to off balance the opponent or to the body to drop them, headbutts, hammerfist strikes and shoulder hits also work. All these can be found in the bakmei, village hunggar, and lung ying I train. Some standing locks and chokes work as well, mainly when against a wall though and in close

What else works? strength training be it using rings, lifting locks, using very heavy weapons or stone barbells, hitting things such as sand bags, poles and bags to build striking power
Weapon work: isolated drills to learn the proper technique then sparring, sets can be useful for learning to issue power with a weapon but they are not necessary really

Do sets help with actual combat skills? other than showing you what the style founder thought was useful for them in a fight in terms of technique (hint if something is repeated a lot in a set it was important to someone) and help explaining the fighting strategy they preffered to use in a fight…., not really.no

But if you mean useful in terms of health and fitness then things change: sets can help build muscular endurance, help with aerobic and anaerobic conditioning and help with muscular imbalances. For instance from years of powerlifting and sitting at a desk I have issues with my rhombus not firing and my lats no longer working properly, in addition to rehab band work certain hung gar forms with isometric work and wide arm movements have really helped with my rehab
Running through certain CLF forms and bakmei forms (alongside bag work, shadow boxing, bodyweight work etc) helps keep me aerobically fit and I find more interesting than simply just running or just doing shadow boxing
Heavy weapon work has helped with shoulder issues that have resulted from the above imbalances, and can help build strength in range of motion and flexibility in the hips and legs

Now are these the only way (or even the best way) to get these improvements? maybe not but its also fun and that is an important aspect of training to.
Im 6ft, 230 pounds train and compete in powerliftering, and to be honest its been years since I have been in even a pushing contest let alone an actual fight so enjoyment and fitness are the main reasons I train these days, yes I like what I do to actually work if I need it and im glad I have a sifu who still mixes it up with BJJ and judo guys in grapplng and still trains at a local MMA gym even in his 50’s, but I train TCMA for the same reason I train grappling and powerlifting (and even MMA) because I like it, its fun and enjoyable

[sanjuro_ronin]

RE: HIIT and "steady pace" endurance running.
It is not a question of either/or.
Good regimes to BOTH.
Both have their merits and both make a fighter have better cardio-vascular endurance and maximize VO2.
BOTH.
There is no reason to do one over the other.
Boxers, for example, have done both for ages:
Steady road work and HIIT bag work.
MMA fighters do both, pretty much every sport combat systems does a form of both steady ( paced) cardio and HIIT.

[sanjuro_ronin]

RE: Static stance training.
It serves its purpose, which IS NOT leg strengthening or increasing leg muscle endurance.
It build stability and teaches how to "root" oneself.
Is it needed to develop a fighter? Of course not, many systems do not use it and produce excellent fighters.
IMO, it does build a sort of "base" ( if you pardon the pun) for beginners to build off of.