TCMA discussion Part dieux

[sanjuro_ronin]

So, what works in TCMA?
That depends on what you are "working at" right?
In terms of fighting what works is ANYTHING that you train to fight with. ie: anything that you train hard/full contact VS a resisting opponent and you can make work.
IN terms of the other things that TCMA is good for ( exercise and such), anything that you enjoy doing is something that you will do more often than something you do NOT enjoy doing.

[Lucas]

Examples of kung fu bro science:

- stance training makes you a better fighter
- qigong lets you absorb blows with mystic energy
- weights make you big/slow/inflexible
- training against a willing partner who leaves his punches extended develops useful defense skills that will actually work in real life

The problem here is you're focusing on the bottom feeders, scrubs, noobbs, and losers...why listen to people at the lowest experience levels and then act like this is everyone? You have just been wasting your time. No one successful subscribes whole to those lines of thought.don't you know you're supposed to ignore those things?

The first point is true however. Every single fighter in the history of the world does stance work. I think you mean to say prolonged static stance holding....

[Paul T England]

Everything can work at some point, stamp kicks, eye jabs, claw strikes, elbows, knees, sweeps, punches, blocks, throws, trips, pushes, head butts...ok you ge tmy meaning So its how you train which is important.

Problem is that oriental martial arts instruction is mixed with culture, performance and health and fighting is not been the main focus for many schools. There are exceptions to the rule such as WSL Ving Tsun, of Hung Sing Choy li fut maybe.

Todays teachers need to focus on what it is they are teaching. Health tai chi is fine but if you pracitce it for self defence you will do alot of push hands, impact training, applications etc. If you are going to use it in San Da or MMA you will need even more conditioning and sparring.

On the weapons front. We should use solid weapons and drill basics and use the weapons to develop skills. Double Broadsword has always been assoicated with coorrdination and footwork, kwan dao and staff with arm and upper body development etc. So wepaons can be used for technical training.

Paul

[IronFist]

MY GOD the MMA/ TMCA haters are following us frpom board to board like bitter Jehovah witnesses preaching why our religion is not good enough as thiers....

Ironfist

I usually like and read your posts and responses but it seems now as you are just talking out your a$$. Whatever we say that we do you say thats not good for fighting you gotta do it this way for it to be effective.

I'm not trying to say whatever you do isn't good fighting just because it's what you say you do.

I'm saying if you spend lots of time doing stance training, it's not making you any stronger. I used to do stances for a while (8-30 minutes) each day as part of my training and in hindsight, I realize how much time I wasted because I wasn't coming closer to my goals. The only thing it did was give me a stable horse stance. I didn't get any stronger. My legs were still quite weak.

Stance training is useless for building leg strength after the first few minutes.

The nervous system and muscles adapt due to increased resistance. This is why when you lift weights, over time you increase the weight and get stronger, and then once you plateau, you start over again with a lighter weight and increase the weight again over time, ideally finishing that cycle a little heavier than you finished your previous cycle.

Horse stance doesn't do any of that. The weight stays constant (unless you gain weight over the weeks). There is never an increased resistance so there is never a biological need to increase strength.

To make things worse, it's a static posture. Most people only get stronger in the range of motion that they train. So with horse stance training, not only are you not getting strong (past the first few minutes for an untrained individual), but you're also only increasing your muscular endurance in one specific angle.

The only adaptation you end up with is the ability to hold that stance in that particular position.

That's an adaptation, just isn't one that is useful for fighting. Do you fight from a training stance? Of course not. Do you hold low positions for long periods of time in a fight? No.

PLEASE post some video of you fighting so the board may see what you mean and how you move PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE this will end the discussion once and forall

That has nothing to do with anything. Why is the only defense of the kung fu person to ask for proof of the other person fighting?

Just because someone is a good fighter doesn't make them right, either. That's like assuming a huge bodybuilder knows a lot about bodybuilding, or that a skinny person with ribbed abs knows a lot about dieting. It's a pretty noob mistake.

[IronFist]

because the following all rely on a good aerobic system
1) how fast you recovery between rounds
2) how quickly you can recover from an alactic burst and repeat it
3) How much power you can produce at your threshold before going lactic
4) how low your resting heart rate is

3 and 4 are interlinked, the lower your resting heart rate the more work you can do before going lactic, the higher your power output at your threshold is the harder and longer you can hit before going lactic (and when you o go lactic you gas quicker)

Not to mention MMA fight camp training (and any fight camp training for that matter) is the hardest thing you can do to your body, aerobic work helps you to recover between sessions and not be over trained. definition of overtrained?? go watch an episode of TUF they have hard grappling matches, hard sparring and hard interval sessions right up to their elimination fights...then they gas in the first 5 minutes...go figure

No where did i say intervals werent useful, i asked for tabata research to show its better for mma training than long distance work (tabatas are one form of interval, and i think for MMA a terrible one but willing to be proved wrong by the research)

Hey,

I know I've read this somewhere before but I can't remember where. Let me see if I can find it. I'm not sure I know where to begin looking, though. Most of the things I found when I Googled just now were discussions on forums similar to the one we're having now.

I remember where I was when I read it, which was a place I lived about 6-7 years ago, so it may take me a while to find.

Not dodging your question. Now you've got me curious to find it again, too.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Videos or fight records prove if a person is a good fighter (or bad), period.
When discussing training regimes and protocols, the fighting ability of the person discussing it means as much as their driving ability when discussing the color of car they like.
That many fighter regimes have redundant ( I don't like using the term useless) exercises is very clear for anyone that has ever seen or trained with fighters.
Or those cross fit pussies.

[IronFist]

The problem here is you're focusing on the bottom feeders, scrubs, noobbs, and losers...why listen to people at the lowest experience levels and then act like this is everyone? You have just been wasting your time. No one successful subscribes whole to those lines of thought.don't you know you're supposed to ignore those things?

Dude, we've had 10+ page threads here about absorbing blows with your qi.

The first point is true however. Every single fighter in the history of the world does stance work. I think you mean to say prolonged static stance holding....

Yeah, holding stances for time.

Obviously even a boxer doing shadow boxing is technically training his stance.

Sorry, thought that was clear from the context.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hey,

I know I've read this somewhere before but I can't remember where. Let me see if I can find it. I'm not sure I know where to begin looking, though. Most of the things I found when I Googled just now were discussions on forums similar to the one we're having now.

I remember where I was when I read it, which was a place I lived about 6-7 years ago, so it may take me a while to find.

Not dodging your question. Now you've got me curious to find it again, too.

The consensus now is BOTH are crucial in complete development.

[IronFist]

RE: Static stance training.
It serves its purpose, which IS NOT leg strengthening or increasing leg muscle endurance.
It build stability and teaches how to "root" oneself.
Is it needed to develop a fighter? Of course not, many systems do not use it and produce excellent fighters.
IMO, it does build a sort of "base" ( if you pardon the pun) for beginners to build off of.

What is the purpose of learning to "root" oneself?

I've heard and read that term in many discussions and TCMA books, and it's usually accompanied by a demo of a guy who is "rooted" with people trying to push or pull him off balance.

You know the pic where a sifu is there in some stance and has like 5 students trying to push him over. It's bordering on, but not quite at, "mystic power" nonsense.

Like this kind of thing:



What is that all about? Obviously it's a conceptual demo and not anything that is applicable in real life, otherwise you would see professional fighters who cannot be taken down because they are "rooted."

[IronFist]

The consensus now is BOTH are crucial in complete development.

You know, that may have been the conclusion of the article. I just remember it was emphasizing that distance running won't get you where you need to be (lol that was sort of a reverse pun).

Boxers who were winded during fights and wanting to improve their endurance would increase their distance running from 5 to 10 miles but it didn't improve their stamina in the ring because the energy systems taxed were different.

[Frost]

The consensus now is BOTH are crucial in complete development.

That’s your consensus stop trying to make us all agree and be nice it wont happen

Joking although I’ll argue that Tabatas are next to useless for MMA and fighting, that intervals are useful but when and how you use them depend on which energy system you which to improve, and that those which target the aerobic system and alactic energy systems are more important than those which target the lactic system when it comes to MMA and that simply doing intervals because they are feel hard and a 5 round fight is also hard is silly, your training should be targeted to improving the specific energy systems you will use during a fight and targeted to your strengths,

[Frost]

You know, that may have been the conclusion of the article. I just remember it was emphasizing that distance running won't get you where you need to be (lol that was sort of a reverse pun).

Boxers who were winded during fights and wanting to improve their endurance would increase their distance running from 5 to 10 miles but it didn't improve their stamina in the ring because the energy systems taxed were different.

again please quote it because its flat out wrong

[sanjuro_ronin]

You know, that may have been the conclusion of the article. I just remember it was emphasizing that distance running won't get you where you need to be (lol that was sort of a reverse pun).

Boxers who were winded during fights and wanting to improve their endurance would increase their distance running from 5 to 10 miles but it didn't improve their stamina in the ring because the energy systems taxed were different.

I think I know which article you are talking about, that was a way back.
It was brought upon by Hatfiled's claim of training Holyfield with strictly HIIT training.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That’s your consensus stop trying to make us all agree and be nice it wont happen

Joking although I’ll argue that Tabatas are next to useless for MMA and fighting, that intervals are useful but when and how you use them depend on which energy system you which to improve, and that those which target the aerobic system and alactic energy systems are more important than those which target the lactic system when it comes to MMA and that simply doing intervals because they are feel hard and a 5 round fight is also hard is silly, your training should be targeted to improving the specific energy systems you will use during a fight and targeted to your strengths,

Tabata's are NOT the best choice in terms of HIIT protocols for fighters.

[Frost]

Tabata's are NOT the best choice in terms of HIIT protocols for fighters.

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