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Thread: Wu Sau: Positioning, Reference and Gate Stratagy

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT View Post
    The movement of the dummy is back and sideways. Why? Because the force is forward, but the point of engagement is (naturally) on the side of the dummy's arms. Leung Ting's kwan sao makes contact with the side of the dummy's arms, but his force is forwards - so the dummy rocks back and to the side.
    Where do you see it moving backward on either gaang-sau or kwan-sau?

    You can also look at the direction of his jam-sau arm/hand. It is going completely sideways, to block (chase hands), whereas WSL's is directed straight at the dummy. His hand almost touches the dummy where the "head" would be, because it's cutting the opponent's way with a strike, not blocking their hands away.

  2. #182
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    Chasing hands is shown clearly by Leung Ting here at :16. "Don't cut the jam-sau forward into the opponent, but swat their hand away to the side." Watch where that hand goes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnRZzuQAmG8

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Shift on the balls of your feet like Leung Ting and you are physically moving away from the opponent. The opponent is directly in front of you and you shift away to the side. That neither brings you closer nor keeps in in place.

    Here's how and why we shift on the heels: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--wgG...endscreen&NR=1
    Well, there in lies the confusion. When you see WSL demo the ball-of-the-foot pivot (1.12 in the clip), he is pivoting when we wouldn't do so.

    In the first instance, the initial positioning is strange as he is in a position already turned (that's fair enough, I guess), but our legs wouldn't be in that position from our turn.

    But if I was in that position, however, I would not pivot and punch from here, I would step in and punch (but I understand this is not how things would work in the WSL line, as Kevin G pointed out in a previous post that you don't utilize stepping into the opponent's stance in this way).

    A minor point, but the point for turning (for us) is the K1 point, not the ball of the foot.

    The reason we turn is to re-angle and help off-load force - this is usually when someone is themselves stepping in. They are closing the distance even more, and so with a turn (even on the k1 point), we are not out of reach. I have never punched the air when trying to punch someone's head as WSL showed us. That is because with the opponent coming in (here the demo partner was not coming in, he was stationary) I am not moving my whole body away - I am shifting my torso away from the line of attack - the opponent is still going to be really close.

    My shift - the amount I turn, is always in relation to a) the amount of force coming in, b) the position of the opponent's body.

    There are active turns and passive turns. When my opponent attacks and I turn/shift, it is the opponent who creates my turn (via the force and direction of the attack). It is p
    There are active turns and passive turns. When my opponent attacks and I turn/shift, it is the opponent who creates my turn (via the force and direction of the attack).passive - it is only active when I attack.

    WSL is also demo'ing this by shifting from one side all the way to the other. This type of shift does/could have a place in training, but never in this scenario. The distances are all wrong - there would be no need - and a step in is required.


    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    I couldn't tell you the difference between organizations, but as I've experienced, they are hand-chasers who try running circles around their opponents. They have no conception of "cutting the way", as in the above video.
    So you have never chi sao'd with someone from LT WT out of Hong Kong?
    Last edited by BPWT; 02-10-2013 at 08:13 AM.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Where do you see it moving backward on either gaang-sau or kwan-sau? You can also look at the direction of his jam-sau arm/hand. It is going completely sideways, to block (chase hands)
    If you can't see what I am saying, I just don't know how to explain it further.

    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Chasing hands is shown clearly by Leung Ting here at :16. "Don't cut the jam-sau forward into the opponent, but swat their hand away to the side." Watch where that hand goes.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnRZzuQAmG8
    He is demo'ing something in the air! There are no arms to chase, and most importantly no body behind those arms - the center is the key.

    Again, if you can't see what I am saying, then I am sure I am not explaining it very well.

    I would suggest, however, that if you can get to a LT WT guy who has had training in HK or Eastern Europe, you would better understand what I am trying (and failing) to explain. Otherwise you're basing your thoughts on something you are not feeling.
    Last edited by BPWT; 02-10-2013 at 08:26 AM.

  5. #185
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    Doesn't really matter how exactly Leung Ting is shifting, the point is he's moving his entire body away and swatting sideways at the hands as he clearly shows in the video. That's hand chasing, pure and simple.

    The only reason to bring him up here is to say the guard, which is the topic of this thread, won't work for someone who uses such a strategy. But that's more the fault of the strategy than the guard. It must be used with the proper strategy, cutting the way, and it will be quite effective.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT View Post
    He is demo'ing something in the air! There are no arms to chase, and most importantly no body behind those arms - the center is the key.
    Yet anyone can see his hands are swatting sideways and not forward at all.

    I would suggest, however, that if you can get to a LT WT guy who has had training in HK or Eastern Europe, you would better understand what I am trying (and failing) to explain. Otherwise you're basing your thoughts on something you are not feeling.
    Just did that a few days ago. All needless circling, evasion, and hand chasing.

  7. #187
    Okay, I don't agree with many of the things you've been saying, but I think I am unable to clearly explain what I mean in a way that will make sense to you.

    No worries. I hope you have the chance to experience some WT from HK sometime - just because I think you'd find it interesting.

    I haven't read the whole thread regarding the guard - it didn't interest me too much. I was skimming when I saw your LT post and I wanted to try and explain to you that LT's method is really not about chasing hands.

    Ho-Hum.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Just did that a few days ago. All needless circling, evasion, and hand chasing.
    Clearly you didn't, LFJ. No need to make sh*t up.

    But if you wanna bullish*t, do so with someone else.

    Last post from me on this thread.

  9. #189

    little idea

    I will re examine this idea with new inquiry
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

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