Hardest part of mimicing your style

[Robinhood]

In articifial intellegence, this is called "backward search". You start from the leaf and search all the way back to the root. Since for any leaf, there is only 1 root. For any root, there can be many leafs. The "backward search" is always faster than the "forward search".

I would call it learning from someone better. If they are using same attributes as you, then you can copy them. Physical outside movement's are easy to copy , its the things you can't see that are hard to copy.

[maxattck]

Indeed.
You do NOT get pummeled and beaten to a pulp when you start sparring BUT you do get introduced to TWO of the most important things you will have to deal with in a real fight:
Getting hit and pain.

Yes, I agree totally. The only way to get past the fear of taking shots and recovering from getting hit is too get hit or submitted. Eventually you stop worrying about it, and it free up your game.

[Syn7]

To an extent. Some people walk right into dangerous situations because they think they can eat a few.

[jdhowland]

How does you/ your school. and teachers train adn spar fights while still having the flavor of your style?

Easier for some "styles" than others. Fortunately for me, our system "looks like" kickboxing. Gross motor skills prevail. Of couse, in private training we have greater range of movement, more rotation and follow-through, but in Lama style simplicity and redundancy of technique is stressed.


.

[-N-]

I find my students look great when doing application slow controlled techniques etc etc, then when we go at it and I expect a change during free fighting but it seems as they loose most if not all the mantis flavor and look like uncontrolled slap boxing exchange.

How does you/ your school. and teachers train adn spar fights while still having the flavor of your style?

If you are trying to get your students to "look" a certain way, you've missed the whole point of effectiveness.

I'd have to agree with that.

It's not supposed to be about mimicking. It's about actually mastering the functional skills.

The students automatically will look like Mantis if they train the skills until mastered.

The students probably have a lot of stuff that they've been exposed to, but haven't mastered. So when under pressure, it all falls apart.

Start them sparring with just one technique that they have to train with intensity. Shin kick for example. Make them spar only with shin kick for hours and hours, until they learn every aspect about using that kick and how to counter.

Then give them something else. Like right grab, left punch to the face. Have them train that until they can nail it any time they want.

Then give them front kick. They can use only front kick when sparring. Make them do front kick until they can't stand any more.

Now let them start combining only 2 techniques. Like shin kick and grab punch. Do it with intensity until it is automatic and they understand instinctively every possible way to use the 2 techniques together.

Keep going until they are combining 2 and 3 moves together correctly. Then dissallow single techniques. Force them to use only combinations. Single technique automatically loses the match.

Just keep coaching in a way that reinforces correct usage, even if some of the coaching is carried to an extreme.

[Yum Cha]

Not having seen your guys, I'll agree with Bwang that footwork is probably the key. Students get enamoured with hands and forget footwork.
And also, as several people mentioned, hit hard. We use vests and start with just exercises to strike the body hard, or pad up a senior and let the junior try what he can. Coaches will wear 10oz gloves, but students only light ones.
Essentially, deconstruct the elements, footwork, balance and control in trapping/grappling, striking with power, then bring it all together, with only light gloves and mouthguard.
Lots of intermediate drills, with power and contact, leading to hard sparring when a student can execute properly.

[Syn7]

That^^^ and lot's of leg training in a general sense. Well, whole body, I guess.
Being acrobatic will help you in so so many ways.
I find it amazing how many people in MA's can't even stand on one leg on a balance beam indefinitely.

[LaterthanNever]

Not being born a praying mantis insect!

[Syn7]

While I think studying animals in combat is a great idea, I find that adding extra movement to mimic these animals is wasted movement. Sure it's neat on stage. But it's not necessary. Take the principles, leave the stylized extras for theater. If performance is your goal, cool. But if combat effectiveness is your goal, economy matters. We are humans, our bodies are unique and should be treated as such.

[bawang]

The revenge fantasy thing you're putting words in my mouth. The reason I bash Obasi is because he's a slugger. He fights like a gorilla and he's insane.

shawn obassi is strong warrior of honor with heart of lion. if you were to stand in front of him your testicles would shrink inside yourbody.

[-N-]

While I think studying animals in combat is a great idea, I find that adding extra movement to mimic these animals is wasted movement.

Did ED mean mimicking the animal, or mimicking the appearance of the system, or expecting the sparring to look exactly like the forms?

Praying Mantis doesn't mimic animal movements for the sake of their appearance. That's not what makes it Praying Mantis.

Regarding the slap fighting... one of the biggest contributors I've seen to that is when students have a weak spirit and spar in a flinchy way.

Train them to have the spirit of dominating their opponent. Then they will commit and their movements will be executed with the characteristic principles of the system.

[-N-]

... they loose most if not all the mantis flavor and look like uncontrolled slap boxing exchange.

Just so everybody is on the same page... what do you have in mind when you say "mantis flavor"?

[EarthDragon]

wow thank you everyone for the replies and suggestions they were all good in their own way, and no sillyness thats a first LOL.

bawang
YES "footwork" this is defiantly a key factor here as we have complicated footwork out whole system is designed around it and this is usually the hardest part to learn. and the first to be overlooked.

for others who posted
my first goal for the newbies 6mo -1yr is to look like the style you are fighting with and then adapt that down to real life combat and effectiveness, vs pretty but i want them to see the flavor and use the techniques I have shown them in mantis first, even to the old guys adn the ones whom are not fighter perse who will not be in real street fights anymore need this familiarity and composure when fighting or free sparring.

difference of opinion of when though some said early on I feel that's better but then some sad higher level. I would think instill it now polish or disregard it at higher levels or for combat

[-N-]

my first goal for the newbies 6mo -1yr is to look like the style you are fighting with and then adapt that down to real life combat and effectiveness

Look exactly like the forms?

Or do you mean, look like the style because they blitz in with rapid fire combos, control while attacking, change from high/low and left/right, and finish with a takedown or power move?

[EarthDragon]

-N-,

"flavor" being able to tell the difference in ones movement, body mechanics, flow application composure and origin of the animal while flowing, attacking blocking, moving, fighting forms etc etc

if I could move like the mantis not many other insects would matter

I judge a lot of tourneys, full contact professional /amature MMA , tough man contests forms competitions etc etc and sometimes I have to ask what style is that guy trying to do..... this is bad when its unrecognizable. it should be blatantly obvious. except for full contact MMA then we know by your book. LOL