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Thread: The shape of combat

  1. #1
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    The shape of combat

    EarthDragon's thread got me wondering about what the common TCMA(and others) view on the way combat should look.

    I know there are some that believe you can fight the same way you perform a form or they way they see it in a movie. In my experience, this isn't the case. There seems to be this belief that if you spend a lot of time practicing you can "rewire" your body's natural responses and be able to perform like a wushu champion.

    I read in one of the posts in ED's thread that when he said "mimicking" he meant the characteristics of Mantis, such as footwork and quick strikes, etc.

    What your thoughts on how a traditional style of martial arts is supposed to look when fighting?

    For me, everything starts with basic boxing. You learn basic punching skills and basic defenses. Then you add in legs. After a person has a firm grasp of these things you start adding in different footwork and principles of the style(such as angles of attack, multiple strikes, etc) because all of these things are much easier to add in after basic kickboxing skills are learned.

    This is one of the reasons I never understood why Kenpo gets so much crap for their training methods. They do countless techniques in order to teach principles of the system in much the same way as CMA do forms to learn the same thing.
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesC View Post

    What your thoughts on how a traditional style of martial arts is supposed to look when fighting?
    To me this is the shape of combat


  3. #3
    What I find missing and not often taught in TMCA is strategy, which to me is why most TMCA practitioners don't seemed to have the flavor for their chosen system.

  4. #4
    It's all Jeet Kune Do in the end.

    You move how your body moves. Some people have flair, some are more nuts and bolts. Where you'll get into all kinds of trouble with TCMA or any MA for that matter is when you spend all your time trying to conform YOU to the style and don't spend enough time conforming the style to You!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
    What I find missing and not often taught in TMCA is strategy,
    I have just started a "TCMA strategies" thread. Please share your experience in that thread.
    http://johnswang.com

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  6. #6
    We may look at the same thing the other way around.

    What you would not do in your style and why?

    If you are boxer, you would not let your guard down etc.

    If you are mantis player, you would not do this and that.

    If you are ---

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no0Cj...layer_embedded

    Never this and that.

    Never on Sunday etc etc.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    It's all Jeet Kune Do in the end.

    You move how your body moves. Some people have flair, some are more nuts and bolts. Where you'll get into all kinds of trouble with TCMA or any MA for that matter is when you spend all your time trying to conform YOU to the style and don't spend enough time conforming the style to You!
    I agree with this
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    You move how your body moves.
    You are the master. Your style is your slave. I like to coordinate my back leg with my leading arm, and my leading leg with my back arm. My style never told me to do that.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 01-30-2013 at 10:12 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    You are the master. Your style is your slave. I like to coordinate my back leg with my leading arm, and my leading leg with my back arm. My style never told me to do that.
    Your style doesn't have step, grab, drive into linear bow stance, punch with lead hand???

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    It's all Jeet Kune Do in the end.

    You move how your body moves. Some people have flair, some are more nuts and bolts. Where you'll get into all kinds of trouble with TCMA or any MA for that matter is when you spend all your time trying to conform YOU to the style and don't spend enough time conforming the style to You!
    You can say that when you are no longer a beginner.

    Most people are not at that point yet and still need to focus on learning their system.

    Very easy to overestimate one's actual competency. Then you get people that slap fight and complain that kung fu doesn't work and that their teacher held back from them.

    Then they go around "cross training" when they haven't even trained their own system properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    Your style doesn't have step, grab, drive into linear bow stance, punch with lead hand???
    The

    - XingYi system coordinates leading arm punch with the leading leg landing.
    - longfist system coordinate leading arm punch with the back leg springing.

    Since I have cross trained both systems, which guideline should I follow? Which leg should I coordinate with my non-striking hand? Since my style doesn't know what I intend to do, my styles can't define that for me. I have to define that for myself.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesC View Post
    For me, everything starts with basic boxing. You learn basic punching skills and basic defenses. Then you add in legs.
    Legs and core first, then the rest.


    Quote Originally Posted by JamesC View Post
    This is one of the reasons I never understood why Kenpo gets so much crap for their training methods. They do countless techniques in order to teach principles of the system in much the same way as CMA do forms to learn the same thing.
    I was a brown belt in Kenpo before going to Mantis.

    Kenpo had a lot of combination hand techniques that were very superficial in concept and integration compared to Mantis.

    Also Kenpo had very rudimentary coordination between legs, waist, torso, and striking.

    Footwork was slow, crude, and not very developed or finesseful.

    A lot of isolated arm power instead of whole body power compared to Mantis.

    That said, my teacher preferred to retrain a Kenpo person over another Karate person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    The

    - XingYi system coordinates leading arm punch with the leading leg landing.
    - longfist system coordinate leading arm punch with the back leg springing.

    Since I have cross trained both systems, which guideline should I follow? Which leg should I coordinate with my non-striking hand? Since my style doesn't know what I intend to do, my styles can't define that for me. I have to define that for myself.
    You are at a level where you integrate and should just use the one that is convenient and fits the situation.

    But you have the benefit of training both approaches to their limits within their systems.

    So that is different than someone who just comes up and does whatever without having that background.

    You came down from the mountain. The others may not even know what is mountain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    That said, my teacher preferred to retrain a Kenpo person over another Karate person.
    ...which still involved a lot of yelling on his part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    You came down from the mountain.
    The day when I received my medicare card, the day that I realized the bottom of the montain is not too far away from me.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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