New veteran students

[JamesC]

When you have new students that are veteran in another style, which ones seem to pick up on it the fastest and which ones take the longest?

It seems like Shaolin guys would pick up on other kung fu te easiest because of their mid range style. Maybe Chen taiji guys? Or okinawan karate guys?

[EarthDragon]

depends on the students and their teacher. I have spent many a year correct bad habits. So it varies but I was real stiff when i came form JMA to TCMA once I used circular and loosened up i picked up mantis pretty easily.

[GoldenBrain]

Those who came to our kwoon in great shape adapted the quickest no matter what style. Those with big bellies didn't like the workout and associated pain so they left to early to tell. Transitioning from a hard style such as Karate to a soft style of Kung-Fu may present a challenge for many new students just as it did with me.

[Syn7]

I have to assume that they joined a new style because they are open to it in some way. So any physical experience, especially in another MA, will be a headstart to some extent. I imagine a few obstinate 'experts' refused to change and only caused problems. But I'm sure they are the exception, not the rule.

I can't say from personal experience in relation to MA's tho.

[Jimbo]

I only taught my own group for 4 years, but the core people were consistent during that time. Two of my students were, coincidentally, black belts in Okinawan karate, and although they started a bit stiff, loosened up nicely. I had others who had little prior experience who did very well, too. It really depends on how open and willing they are to to learn/work hard.

The worst student I had was a former Kickboxer who, though he looked in good shape, was surprisingly lazy in class and resistant to learning anything new. He kept making excuses. I eventually took him aside and told him if he was going to be resistant to learning and not make an effort, he can stop coming. Gladly, he was only around a very short time.

When I originally started CMA (northern style), I was physically very flexible, but moved a bit mechanically (during forms, but not when I sparred) due to my karate background. But I adapted quickly because I observed others very carefully.

[jimbob]

In CLF I had the most trouble with Japanese karate guys both mechanically and mentally. One guy would refuse to believe sow choy was a valid technique (despite being hit with it time and again). He was a Shotokai teacher. I often wondered if he allowed his own students to question him so much.

In tai chi terms, I've had a few dancers over the years who wanted to learn, and while they could move gracefully they struggled mightily with the body mechanics and weighting.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If a person has already a mode of fighting that is practical, I tend to build on it.
A good teacher should be able to maximize what a student already does well.

[Jimbo]

In the case of the above-mentioned Kickboxer in my class, I actually wonder if he was being truthful about his background. Before he started, he told me these words:

"First, if I join your class, I WILL make better progress than all your other students. That's not arrogance, it's just a fact. So I hope there won't be any hard feelings on their part."

This before his ever having seen my students. In my years as both a student, and those years as a teacher, I've found when somebody says that, it's 100% that they're going to be lazy and suck, and not last. I also think he was surprised and disillusioned when he saw that some of my students were much better than him. To the point that he only wanted private class away from the others.

I was perfectly willing to work with anyone with previous experience, but it's a two-way street. It worked for the previous black belts in my class. I didn't try to stifle their natural reactions, but to build on them. If someone isn't willing to learn what's being taught, better not to start at all.

[jdhowland]

In CLF I had the most trouble with Japanese karate guys both mechanically and mentally. One guy would refuse to believe sow choy was a valid technique (despite being hit with it time and again). He was a Shotokai teacher. I often wondered if he allowed his own students to question him so much.

In tai chi terms, I've had a few dancers over the years who wanted to learn, and while they could move gracefully they struggled mightily with the body mechanics and weighting.

This reminds me of a dance instructor who studied with me for a few months. He was never able to correct his habit of toeing-out in every position.

I had three students who had been Tang Soo Do instructors. They all did very well. Started their CMA practice with good fitness and self-discipline. Took awhile to loosen up waists and shoulders, though.

My one total "failure" was with a former Wing Chun guy who was very enthusiastic about joining the class--talked about it for months before hand. Said he wanted to make sure it was the right time in his life and he could really commit himself to the program. He tried one class and couldn't do anything without shaking from the strain. He was angry and after class asked with trembling voice, "Why do you do the leg training like that?" I never saw him again.

[Kellen Bassette]

I've found when somebody says that, it's 100% that they're going to be lazy and suck, and not last.

Almost across the board. Guys that come off like that tend to be insecure about their abilities or just plain delusional. Someone who is capable and confident usually lets his skills speak for them self. In my experience anyway.

[Yum Cha]

If a person has already a mode of fighting that is practical, I tend to build on it.
A good teacher should be able to maximize what a student already does well.

Once again the good oil from the Shibumi Master!

There are core habits that may be different, but fine tuning them as opposed to replacing them adds to the student's knowledge as opposed to replacing it with conflicting choices to their muscle memory.

In Pak Mei, we train guys to loosen up and approach a fight in a different manner. Use what works and simplify. I got collected by a CLF backfist the other day, something we don't teach. What, I'm gonna tell this guy its no good? I know it, use it, and know how to defend against it, but I still got collected...

[YouKnowWho]

If a person has already a mode of fighting that is practical, I tend to build on it.
A good teacher should be able to maximize what a student already does well.

Agree!

I have helped my wrestler student to bring back his faith in "head lock". He taught to his brother. His brother is an army wrestling coach. His brother taught in his combat class in the army too. I told him that if his "head lock" is not strong enough to bend his opponent's neck and spine, he is not ready to use it yet. He told me that he can integrate 8 different ground skill with his head lock now. I can see that our next generation can do much better integration job than our generation can.

[jimbob]

This reminds me of a dance instructor who studied with me for a few months. He was never able to correct his habit of toeing-out in every position.

.

I need to qualify my last statement a little. The dancers who came to learn tai chi had also tried the CLF class I was running, and they impressed the hell out of everyone. Extremely fit and strong - they were able to hold their legs straight above their heads for 20-30 seconds. I expected them to be flexible, but was very impressed by how fit they were.

One of them didn't stay for very long with the tai chi, the other did but was never really able to find the ground (or I was never able to teach him how to).

I referenced a couple of japanese karate guys in my earlier post as having troubles. I also need to say that my experience in teaching japanese karate guys is limited to those two people. I suspect there are people who learn quickly and have good body awareness, and those who need to concentrate a little more - irrespective of what they study.