The industry needs oversight

[Orion Paximus]

I don't mind regulation in a volunteer sort of way. If you want to take your kids to a known safe school, then you look for those certified teachers. But I would hate for a regulatory commission to have the authority to shut down a school that hasn't committed any wrong doing except for not being registered.

Do you think any of those old masters who came to whatever country they are in illegally would risk going to the authorities to get registered? Nope they just wouldn't teach and we'd all be the worse for it.

[GeneChing]

I don't think that would happen. If a school has a brick-and-mortar, it wouldn't take that much to meet some regulatory standards. Almost every other industry that teaches children - swimming, day care, you name it - meet such standards. True, it would be another fee and if the school was on the edge, it might just push it out of business. There would surely be a profound impact at first, but given the tarnish to the reputation of the martial arts, it is needed.

As for those old 'illegal' masters, if they don't have their green card, they probably aren't operating a legal business anyway so they wouldn't be beholden to these regulations. Underground backyard or garage teaching will always be with us. And most of those don't teach kids anyway.

[Robinhood]

I don't mind regulation in a volunteer sort of way. If you want to take your kids to a known safe school, then you look for those certified teachers. But I would hate for a regulatory commission to have the authority to shut down a school that hasn't committed any wrong doing except for not being registered.

Do you think any of those old masters who came to whatever country they are in illegally would risk going to the authorities to get registered? Nope they just wouldn't teach and we'd all be the worse for it.

You have that right, government is way over regulating enough already.

Maybe make prostitution legal, would that get rid of some of these perverts ?, probably not, I think some are just born that way.?

But any open school should be monitored or a least observed or inspected to follow certain rules when working with kids.

[Punch.HeadButt]

Can't watch the vids at the moment, so can't comment on them, but it's definitely something that needs to be addressed. I once worked at a local YMCA in child care, and they required background checks...it was a pretty painless process. There's no reason that somebody who is intent on opening a business that plans on having kids in its clientele (and, let's be honest, that's 90% of MA schools that open) can't go through that process. Of course it's not going to eliminate the problem, but it's SOMEthing...a fairly painless step in the right direction.

I really don't think the magnitude of this problem is fully understood by most. It's absolutely devastating not only to those involved, but the MA community as a whole. And it doesn't matter what political cubbyhole you take up in the MA world (if you're inclined to do so), the general public will tend to view the MA community as a single, culpable entity. There's gotta be SOME kind of regulation for any institution that is going to be dealing with children regularly, ESPECIALLY an institution in which the instructors laying their hands on the students is going to be a common occurrence (whether it's to correct a posture, help them stretch, whatever).

Relevant story with no real point: A few years back, when I was living in San Jose, some folks from out of town who were moving into the apartment complex I was living in asked me to help them move. The landlord pointed them in my direction because I was kind of a big guy at the time (compared to average) and he new I could always use some extra scratch. When we took a break for lunch, we all sat around a pizza and shot the ****. During that period, it came to light that the son of the family (I'd have to guess he was 18-21) had been a victim of sexual harassment as a kid via the TKD school he attended. I don't know how we fell on the subject (we were not discussing MA at all), but the family spoke about it pretty freely. Soon after that topic came up, they asked me what I did for a living. I had never felt so ashamed in telling a group of people that I was a martial arts instructor.

I don't know, whenever this stuff comes up, I really take it personally. As cliche as that "the children are our future" line is, I look at it as 100% correct. If you want to change the world, affect the children. Not like this.

[Kellen Bassette]

You have that right, government is way over regulating enough already.

Maybe make prostitution legal, would that get rid of some of these perverts ?, probably not, I think some are just born that way.?

Maybe not...but it would end an exercise in futility. They don't call it the world's oldest profession for nothing. It would certainly be safer if it were legal, since it's never going to go away.

I'm not in favor of more government regulation either. It ALWAYS seems to prove ineffective. Voluntary certification is a better way to go, IMO. If enough schools start doing it themselves, then it will apply pressure on the other schools and concerned people will ask to see the certification.

I think that beats another inefficient government agency mucking things up.

[Featherstone]

I know that no system is perfect and you can put all the checks and balances in place and still come up short. I feel that these sicko's that prey on children just need to be put down, how do you rehab someone that rapes children?? Public execution using a pudao or something?

[David Jamieson]

I don't mind regulation in a volunteer sort of way. If you want to take your kids to a known safe school, then you look for those certified teachers. But I would hate for a regulatory commission to have the authority to shut down a school that hasn't committed any wrong doing except for not being registered.

Do you think any of those old masters who came to whatever country they are in illegally would risk going to the authorities to get registered? Nope they just wouldn't teach and we'd all be the worse for it.

I disagree with your sentiment. If someone is in a country illegally, they should gtfo and do it the right way and get in line.

Each and every "school" absolutely must follow guidelines and adhere to them or face being shut down. If you are running an institution with access to children and their education physical or otherwsie, then I am all for closely regulating that.

And yeah "karate rape" being a term is a huge indicator that it doesn't matter about the secret agent spy garbage that people try to sell themselves with.

[Kellen Bassette]

And yeah "karate rape" being a term is a huge indicator that it doesn't matter about the secret agent spy garbage that people try to sell themselves with.

I actually never heard that term before this thread, but I do have a related "non story" myself.

When I was a teenager I fought in a "full contact" TKD tournament, representing an Okinawan Karate school. I beat a kid from the TKD school pretty bad, (but was disqualified for drawing blood...at a "full contact" tournament.)

Anyway, his teacher tried to get me to join his school, promising he would train me for the Olympics. I declined, being thoroughly unimpressed with him and his students. A while later it was big local news when it was discovered he had been diddling several little boys at his school. I wonder how his TKD served him in prison?

[pazman]

Do you think any of those old masters who came to whatever country they are in illegally would risk going to the authorities to get registered? Nope they just wouldn't teach and we'd all be the worse for it.

It was the case in the past when illegal Chinese immigrants were escaping political turmoil or lives of extreme poverty. That generally isn't the case today and we are much better off not having such disrespectful people in our country.

=GeneChing}As for those old 'illegal' masters, if they don't have their green card, they probably aren't operating a legal business anyway so they wouldn't be beholden to these regulations. Underground backyard or garage teaching will always be with us. And most of those don't teach kids anyway.

I know for a fact several commercial Wushu/gongfu schools on the West Coast, and a school here in the Midwest have, in the fairly recent past, employed both "illegal immigrants" and Chinese nationals with no work permit.

Anyways, that's off topic.

Having experience in teaching children and teens, there is no reason for not being able to submit to a background check. I will NEVER send my children to a school/gym without the teachers having the proper papers and policies.

[Orion Paximus]

Having experience in teaching children and teens, there is no reason for not being able to submit to a background check. I will NEVER send my children to a school/gym without the teachers having the proper papers and policies.

That's kind of my point, though, let it be up to the parents to see if they teacher has jumped through all these hoops to prove to them that their school is a safe environment. If a parent decides that they'd rather go with teacher X because of their martial arts skill and not because they haven't taken a course on how to not molest children, then it should be up to that parent.

JMO of course.

[Punch.HeadButt]

That's kind of my point, though, let it be up to the parents to see if they teacher has jumped through all these hoops to prove to them that their school is a safe environment. If a parent decides that they'd rather go with teacher X because of their martial arts skill and not because they haven't taken a course on how to not molest children, then it should be up to that parent.

So, would you like to see the regulation that's put in place for practically every other institution that has a large body of children removed, in favor of having the onus of judgement put on the parents?

Makes sense ideally, but it's just not realistic....unfortunately, most parents don't make that kind of effort. They'll just look at the prices, watch a trial class or two, and start leaving their kids there for an hour.