Vin Tsun clips 3 "the return"

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/rmn8gbaOhws

[GlennR]

http://youtu.be/rmn8gbaOhws

Great, it's a trilogy longer than lord of the rings!!!!!

[k gledhill]

Great, it's a trilogy longer than lord of the rings!!!!!

See anything you can discuss beyond inane responses ?

[Alan Orr]

See anything you can discuss beyond inane responses ?

Okay. I'm not starting a flame war. You are asking so I will just give an opinion and I hope it can be discussed without having go back on about right and wrong wing chun.

I just can't see more that semi demo drill chi sao. Maybe it's the style's trademark. But for me and it is just my view - I feel it lacks connection to the goal of wing chun. Which is dealing with a fight. It seems to much wing chun vs wing chun. Pure drilling. That's okay for beginners, but we never see anything beyond that.

In terms of angles etc it's all okay. But I don't see body structure body in the way I view it. The style doesn't use root in a way that I think it would need to in order to hold stance under tough pressure. I know people will say they will move and hit etc etc. But I am just being honest from the point of view of someone that trains fiighters for MMA, boxing K1. In lacks the natural timing of movement for me. It's good level of drilling of what they do. Chi Sao is just training as people will say. But fighting is not just training. So the training has to offer a skill which works in fighting. If a guy was not that good and throws a punch then yes a set drill can work. But I have seen so much nice drilling fall down as soon as the drill is not in play. A stronger fighter will smash though a weak drill as such.

So instead of attacking my crazy view or reminding me that I just use strength or that I don't know wing chun - lets try something new.

Questions -

What do you think this type of drilling demo style chi sao brings to a fight?

Do you think it will stop a guy using power and strength?

Chi Sao is just a drill? if so why does is it somethings showed with a better guy beating a not so good guy? Not saying that it the wrong thing. But it seems to go against the idea of a drilling skill if that's the case.

Would this sort of training stop a MMA fighter (levels basic guy, good guy, advance guy)?

Please explain the next stage in this style to take this to sparing - as I have seen sparring with head gear etc but that all became a long range in and out trade. Is the goal that? or is the goal to get in and stay in and use infighting skills? As I don't see that in the other clips of this style.

Again we all know we have different views, which is all fine.

I am just asking about stuff that is on my mind when I watch this different view.

[Robinhood]

Okay. I'm not starting a flame war. You are asking so I will just give an opinion and I hope it can be discussed without having go back on about right and wrong wing chun.

I just can't see more that semi demo drill chi sao. Maybe it's the style's trademark. But for me and it is just my view - I feel it lacks connection to the goal of wing chun. Which is dealing with a fight. It seems to much wing chun vs wing chun. Pure drilling. That's okay for beginners, but we never see anything beyond that.

In terms of angles etc it's all okay. But I don't see body structure body in the way I view it. The style doesn't use root in a way that I think it would need to in order to hold stance under tough pressure. I know people will say they will move and hit etc etc. But I am just being honest from the point of view of someone that trains fiighters for MMA, boxing K1. In lacks the natural timing of movement for me. It's good level of drilling of what they do. Chi Sao is just training as people will say. But fighting is not just training. So the training has to offer a skill which works in fighting. If a guy was not that good and throws a punch then yes a set drill can work. But I have seen so much nice drilling fall down as soon as the drill is not in play. A stronger fighter will smash though a weak drill as such.

So instead of attacking my crazy view or reminding me that I just use strength or that I don't know wing chun - lets try something new.

Questions -

What do you think this type of drilling demo style chi sao brings to a fight?

Do you think it will stop a guy using power and strength?

Chi Sao is just a drill? if so why does is it somethings showed with a better guy beating a not so good guy? Not saying that it the wrong thing. But it seems to go against the idea of a drilling skill if that's the case.

Would this sort of training stop a MMA fighter (levels basic guy, good guy, advance guy)?

Please explain the next stage in this style to take this to sparing - as I have seen sparring with head gear etc but that all became a long range in and out trade. Is the goal that? or is the goal to get in and stay in and use infighting skills? As I don't see that in the other clips of this style.

Again we all know we have different views, which is all fine.

I am just asking about stuff that is on my mind when I watch this different view.

They can only practice what they know.

With out a proper structure that is what it looks like, two guys racing for position.

[wingchunIan]

Okay. I'm not starting a flame war. You are asking so I will just give an opinion and I hope it can be discussed without having go back on about right and wrong wing chun.

I just can't see more that semi demo drill chi sao. Maybe it's the style's trademark. But for me and it is just my view - I feel it lacks connection to the goal of wing chun. Which is dealing with a fight. It seems to much wing chun vs wing chun. Pure drilling. That's okay for beginners, but we never see anything beyond that.

In terms of angles etc it's all okay. But I don't see body structure body in the way I view it. The style doesn't use root in a way that I think it would need to in order to hold stance under tough pressure. I know people will say they will move and hit etc etc. But I am just being honest from the point of view of someone that trains fiighters for MMA, boxing K1. In lacks the natural timing of movement for me. It's good level of drilling of what they do. Chi Sao is just training as people will say. But fighting is not just training. So the training has to offer a skill which works in fighting. If a guy was not that good and throws a punch then yes a set drill can work. But I have seen so much nice drilling fall down as soon as the drill is not in play. A stronger fighter will smash though a weak drill as such.

So instead of attacking my crazy view or reminding me that I just use strength or that I don't know wing chun - lets try something new.

Questions -

What do you think this type of drilling demo style chi sao brings to a fight?

Do you think it will stop a guy using power and strength?

Chi Sao is just a drill? if so why does is it somethings showed with a better guy beating a not so good guy? Not saying that it the wrong thing. But it seems to go against the idea of a drilling skill if that's the case.

Would this sort of training stop a MMA fighter (levels basic guy, good guy, advance guy)?

Please explain the next stage in this style to take this to sparing - as I have seen sparring with head gear etc but that all became a long range in and out trade. Is the goal that? or is the goal to get in and stay in and use infighting skills? As I don't see that in the other clips of this style.

Again we all know we have different views, which is all fine.

I am just asking about stuff that is on my mind when I watch this different view.

Best post I've read on here in ages. I'm not making any judgements on whose POV is correct but the post is written in an open, engaging and polite manner. If all posts were like this the forum would be infinitely better.

[Alan Orr]

Best post I've read on here in ages. I'm not making any judgements on whose POV is correct but the post is written in an open, engaging and polite manner. If all posts were like this the forum would be infinitely better.

Many thanks.

[Graham H]

deleted.

I now worship Alan Orr

[Alan Orr]

How do you know how much power and strength is being used from a video??



Nobody is "fighting" in any of these chi sau videos so you have a valid point.




I can only speak for myself but stopping an MMA fighter is the last thing on my mind. Why bother yourself with such things? Your thinking suggests that ALL combat systems should prove their worth against MMA. It's a pointless discussion IMO.

One thing you are forgetting Alan is that a street fight doesn't go on for too long in most cases. The result usually depends on the power of the strikes and the amount landed. Just because you train MMA does not mean you can knock out all comers. It depends on many factors. Too many to list so why dwell on it.
Lets look at it from a hypothetical POV. An untrained guy happens to get in some bother with a guy who trains MMA. The untrained guy blind sides him, knocks him to the floor and kicks his head in. Who is the better fighter??? You couldn't even answer that question because the next time it may be different.

Until somebody punches you on the chin it makes no odds about styles!!! Some guys can just fight. No MMA required.

I wish you would stop putting everything about competition Wing Chun against competition MMA. There is no such thing.

Who would win out of Tyson and Ali??? Another stupid pointless question but rages on and on and on.

You could probably pick two guys from this forum and ask them to fight. One may win in the club/ring but lose out on the pavement. How do you know? You never will!



I'm yet to see any good VT sparring on YouTube. You have more chance of finding rocking horse sh8t!



You are right and the fact that most threads turn into garbage is boring now don't you think. Better to leave the keyboard and go face to face if anything is to be sorted out. Otherwise its just pixels on a screen.

It would help if anything you said makes sense in the first place.

Of course street fights are different they can be easier or if unlucky much much harder. I have seen fights last a lot longer when the guys can fight.

My point on Mma is not that you must do it and be able to beat Mma fighters to have good wing Chun. My point is how does the training in the clip bring you to the point where you could hold your own. As it didn't look like they could.

Power and strength - yes I have a good understanding if structure and power so I can see it and I know the style well so I can see it. Before you start you don't know my system.

Blind side someone ? Lol of course you may get Ko d . Point is what?

I'm not saying I am the toughest guy or can Ko everyone . Where did I sat that ? Again projection fears lol

I just like training. I like working out. I like developing myself in the real world with like minded people.

I have over time been lucky enough to have great teachers and students that push me to be better as we train in a way that encourages that

[k gledhill]

Okay. I'm not starting a flame war. You are asking so I will just give an opinion and I hope it can be discussed without having go back on about right and wrong wing chun.

I just can't see more that semi demo drill chi sao. Maybe it's the style's trademark. But for me and it is just my view - I feel it lacks connection to the goal of wing chun. Which is dealing with a fight. It seems to much wing chun vs wing chun. Pure drilling. That's okay for beginners, but we never see anything beyond that.

In terms of angles etc it's all okay. But I don't see body structure body in the way I view it. The style doesn't use root in a way that I think it would need to in order to hold stance under tough pressure. I know people will say they will move and hit etc etc. But I am just being honest from the point of view of someone that trains fiighters for MMA, boxing K1. In lacks the natural timing of movement for me. It's good level of drilling of what they do. Chi Sao is just training as people will say. But fighting is not just training. So the training has to offer a skill which works in fighting. If a guy was not that good and throws a punch then yes a set drill can work. But I have seen so much nice drilling fall down as soon as the drill is not in play. A stronger fighter will smash though a weak drill as such.

So instead of attacking my crazy view or reminding me that I just use strength or that I don't know wing chun - lets try something new.

Questions -

What do you think this type of drilling demo style chi sao brings to a fight?

Do you think it will stop a guy using power and strength?

Chi Sao is just a drill? if so why does is it somethings showed with a better guy beating a not so good guy? Not saying that it the wrong thing. But it seems to go against the idea of a drilling skill if that's the case.

Would this sort of training stop a MMA fighter (levels basic guy, good guy, advance guy)?

Please explain the next stage in this style to take this to sparing - as I have seen sparring with head gear etc but that all became a long range in and out trade. Is the goal that? or is the goal to get in and stay in and use infighting skills? As I don't see that in the other clips of this style.

Again we all know we have different views, which is all fine.

I am just asking about stuff that is on my mind when I watch this different view.

It is exactly what you see, I am posting another thread for random clips, its not a hey everyone look at me. Guy's can post their own clips too.

Its not my schools clip so I cant speak for them. If they do bjj in another clip ?? mma too ?? its just one short clip. How hard they spar ???

[Alan Orr]

It is exactly what you see, I am posting another thread for random clips, its not a hey everyone look at me. Guy's can post their own clips too.

Its not my schools clip so I cant speak for them. If they do bjj in another clip ?? mma too ?? its just one short clip. How hard they spar ???

They are PB guys right?

[JPinAZ]

See anything you can discuss beyond inane responses ?

Nothing more to say that Alan hasn't already. I don't always agree with his approach to wing chun, but I think he's gotten to the meat of it and is pretty spot-on with what he's said.

Besides that, I don't really see the point. To be blunt, you'll just end up getting your panties in a wad and delete this thread within a few days just like you've to most others when they don't go the way you like.

[GlennR]

Great, it's a trilogy longer than lord of the rings!!!!!

Well I can't open the link, so no I can't

Having said that, lighten up Kevin, it's just a forum

[LaRoux]

http://youtu.be/rmn8gbaOhws

Once again, no actual fighting and not really much relationship to actual fighting.

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/K3hLnXD8SlA