Vin Tsun clips 3 "the return"

[Vajramusti]

I delete threads that lose direction anerlich for lack of moderation...Like Frost posting grappling links
I forget sometimes after nearly 30 years doing this VT thing, oh yeah...Years ago I was in L.A. California while doing a USA tour with GM V Kan as his senior instructor and visiting A Fong in arizona, Chris Chan in S.Fran, Kenneth Cheung, and .....Hawkins Cheung..... I remember HC complimented me personally on my bong sao's, chi-sao at an after seminar dinner. This was after watching me and his student R Chu chi-sao....I later had R Chu...Alans teacher, asking me ( privately ) how I turned him in chi-sao , how my bong sao worked, etc...this was all private between me and R Chu during the break in a seminar. H Cheung gave me and a student of V Kan attending , a big explanation of VT alone one night in his school. Great, he was very excited and animated about it.

Oh and M Tyson and me

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In the process of an amazing ego tripping name dropping post KG mentions visiting A. Fong in Arizona. So what? So he had his picture taken with Mike Tyson- so what?
Tyson used to live in Phoenix. I have met him before. A son used to train at the gym where Tyson worked out.So waht?

Since KG mentions his visit with A. Fong (my sifu)...what is the implication if any??

KG has it both ways-referring to his skills in his days with V. Kan and then being exposed to
Bayer's "different thinking" after KG and Kan parted ways.PB lives in Germany and KG lives in NYC.apparently a largely long distance relationship.

A. Fong sifu per Kan's request hosted a seminar for him at what was Tuft's school in Tempe and certificates of attendance were sold by Kan in addition to an admission fee. A Fong is courteous to visitors..I chi saoed with Kan..
but my post is NOT about Kan or PB..

KG chi saoed with a female- he had little control over his motions... and bloodied the lip of the female.At that point somebody else I know took KG by the arm and walked him/escorted him without his consent outside. KG on Kan;s request had also done a very stiff chum kiu.
Why all this insecure name dropping by KG?.Really does not do much for reputation.He really should do some self evaluation.

Since KG started his thread he will probably engage in deletions again..

[k gledhill]

Lmao at these replies...to start I was going to reply to Alan then the muppet squad showed up and I couldnt be bothered.
Then Laroux posts a random clip of Tyson, so I showed him my pic
Deletions are my moderating a wild west of forums

[k gledhill]

So why still the chip on your shoulder Kev?

I've been around TCMA for about 35 years ... interspersed with about 15 in BJJ, and about 5 around MMA ... I don't need to post all these clips or drop all these names to feel secure. Must suck to be you.

No chip, I read Alan using "25 yrs, etc..." to back his opinions on his thinking and meeting various lineages, I threw mine out there for those who might think I am a troll. I have met a lot more but that would be seen as chippy to mention them too.
Hows my spelling and grmor ?

[Graham H]

Nah, we can go lower than this!

It seems you were right.

[k gledhill]

Snap (well almost) 25 years in TMA, 10 in grappling and MMA, I don’t need to name drop either but I will just this once: one of the threads kevin deleted was about Anderson silva doing wing chun when I pointed out Silva was a Thai and BJJ guy and that’s where his skills come from and then posted clips of him with his coaches (one of whom I know personally) kevin had a hissy fit and deleted the thread…twice lol
He can dish the insults and knowing comments out but cant seem to take it

Umm no, selective recall , you sub-posted links and started your own conversation in a thread completely unrelated to you...um...no moderation = my deletion to clear your random sh6iT, why I delete threads. So far you haven't posted any random clips, keep it up.

[k gledhill]

Okay. I'm not starting a flame war. You are asking so I will just give an opinion and I hope it can be discussed without having go back on about right and wrong wing chun.

I just can't see more that semi demo drill chi sao. Maybe it's the style's trademark. But for me and it is just my view - I feel it lacks connection to the goal of wing chun. Which is dealing with a fight. It seems to much wing chun vs wing chun. Pure drilling. That's okay for beginners, but we never see anything beyond that.

In terms of angles etc it's all okay. But I don't see body structure body in the way I view it. The style doesn't use root in a way that I think it would need to in order to hold stance under tough pressure. I know people will say they will move and hit etc etc. But I am just being honest from the point of view of someone that trains fiighters for MMA, boxing K1. In lacks the natural timing of movement for me. It's good level of drilling of what they do. Chi Sao is just training as people will say. But fighting is not just training. So the training has to offer a skill which works in fighting. If a guy was not that good and throws a punch then yes a set drill can work. But I have seen so much nice drilling fall down as soon as the drill is not in play. A stronger fighter will smash though a weak drill as such.

So instead of attacking my crazy view or reminding me that I just use strength or that I don't know wing chun - lets try something new.

Questions -

What do you think this type of drilling demo style chi sao brings to a fight?

Do you think it will stop a guy using power and strength?

Chi Sao is just a drill? if so why does is it somethings showed with a better guy beating a not so good guy? Not saying that it the wrong thing. But it seems to go against the idea of a drilling skill if that's the case.

Would this sort of training stop a MMA fighter (levels basic guy, good guy, advance guy)?

Please explain the next stage in this style to take this to sparing - as I have seen sparring with head gear etc but that all became a long range in and out trade. Is the goal that? or is the goal to get in and stay in and use infighting skills? As I don't see that in the other clips of this style.

Again we all know we have different views, which is all fine.

I am just asking about stuff that is on my mind when I watch this different view.

It is exactly what you see, I am posting another thread for random clips, its not a hey everyone look at me. Guy's can post their own clips too.

Its not my schools clip so I cant speak for them. If they do bjj in another clip ?? mma too ?? its just one short clip. How hard they spar ???

[k gledhill]

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In the process of an amazing ego tripping name dropping post KG mentions visiting A. Fong in Arizona. So what? So he had his picture taken with Mike Tyson- so what?
Tyson used to live in Phoenix. I have met him before. A son used to train at the gym where Tyson worked out.So waht?

Since KG mentions his visit with A. Fong (my sifu)...what is the implication if any??

KG has it both ways-referring to his skills in his days with V. Kan and then being exposed to
Bayer's "different thinking" after KG and Kan parted ways.PB lives in Germany and KG lives in NYC.apparently a largely long distance relationship.

A. Fong sifu per Kan's request hosted a seminar for him at what was Tuft's school in Tempe and certificates of attendance were sold by Kan in addition to an admission fee. A Fong is courteous to visitors..I chi saoed with Kan..
but my post is NOT about Kan or PB..

KG chi saoed with a female- he had little control over his motions... and bloodied the lip of the female.At that point somebody else I know took KG by the arm and walked him/escorted him without his consent outside. KG on Kan;s request had also done a very stiff chum kiu.
Why all this insecure name dropping by KG?.Really does not do much for reputation.He really should do some self evaluation.

Since KG started his thread he will probably engage in deletions again..

..................i was walked outside without my consent ? I hit a "female" ? you need to put down that bong Joy.

[Sihing73]

Kev,

I have undeleted the thread as it does seem a bit unfair that you delete your threads when things do not go as you would like. However, you have no problem jumping into other threads and spouting the "Gospel" of PB.

I will be happy to go through the thread later tonight, when I am home from work, and clean it up a bit, but let's not always try to take our toys and leave the sand box when things do not go as we would like.

[Alan Orr]

No chip, I read Alan using "25 yrs, etc..." to back his opinions on his thinking and meeting various lineages, I threw mine out there for those who might think I am a troll. I have met a lot more but that would be seen as chippy to mention them too.
Hows my spelling and grmor ?

No I am not using 25 years to back up my views. I am using the time spent training in many styles and many martial arts with great teachers. I have guys I have been training for only a few years that would give most people hell.

Whenever you are asked a question you don't like or don't have a god answer for yo try to defect the question away with your unfunny comments or try to delete the whole thread lol now thats funny

[Alan Orr]

It is exactly what you see, I am posting another thread for random clips, its not a hey everyone look at me. Guy's can post their own clips too.

Its not my schools clip so I cant speak for them. If they do bjj in another clip ?? mma too ?? its just one short clip. How hard they spar ???

They are PB guys right?

[Alan Orr]

Best post I've read on here in ages. I'm not making any judgements on whose POV is correct but the post is written in an open, engaging and polite manner. If all posts were like this the forum would be infinitely better.

Many thanks.

[Alan Orr]

Kev,

I have undeleted the thread as it does seem a bit unfair that you delete your threads when things do not go as you would like. However, you have no problem jumping into other threads and spouting the "Gospel" of PB.

I will be happy to go through the thread later tonight, when I am home from work, and clean it up a bit, but let's not always try to take our toys and leave the sand box when things do not go as we would like.

Thank you! Nice to see that people can't just post and run. A forum is for talking.

[anerlich]

Hows my spelling and grmor ?

Still room for improvement, e.g. missing apostrophe - "How's".

You asked.

[anerlich]

Are you trying to say my teacher 20 years ago asked you a question so you must be better? Lol you must need support bro. My teacher is very open minded and will always ask others tons of questions. That's what you do when you meet other styles, then you go away and do what you want.

This is the big wing Chun problem - guys can't even train and talk without someone trying to live off it. Time to grow up and just get on with it.

That is a problem.

At BJJ training last night the head instructor, 3rd degree BB, asked me a technical question. I also quizzed a blue belt on a particular sweep he got me with.

By Kevin's logic, I must be better than the 3rd degree BB but worse than the blue belt. Grossly inaccurate in both cases.

One of the best martial artists I know personally says he ALWAYS goes to seminars and asks the most general and basic questions. You often get an interesting new angle on a subject you thought you knew back to front.

Only in TCMA is keeping secrets and hiding ignorance seen as a good thing. Genuine ignorance isn't your fault. Wilful ignorance certainly is.

[Alan Orr]

That is a problem.

At BJJ training last night the head instructor, 3rd degree BB, asked me a technical question. I also quizzed a blue belt on a particular sweep he got me with.

By Kevin's logic, I must be better than the 3rd degree BB but worse than the blue belt. Grossly inaccurate in both cases.

One of the best martial artists I know personally says he ALWAYS goes to seminars and asks the most general and basic questions. You often get an interesting new angle on a subject you thought you knew back to front.

Only in TCMA is keeping secrets and hiding ignorance seen as a good thing. Genuine ignorance isn't your fault. Wilful ignorance certainly is.

Excellent post!!!! This is martial arts training.