Hendrik question

[Hendrik]

This is about as wrong as it gets. Snake body never has, and never will, have anything to do with real WC.

Enjoy your WC mutation.

if your WCK is not from Red boat era WCK lineages, then you are right. your WCK is not the Red boat WCK.

We dont know what is real WCK, but we have a track record of WCK from 1850 to today interm of lineages and art. those are facts and more and more evidence will surface in the future.

[WC1277]

Okaaaay lets move on, Ving tsun is dependent on angling and movement to work. Like the weapons we use, we too need to change positions and counter attack, etc... a basic pole set is static to learn the alignment of the pole before we start to move and angle to attacks and counter, etc....you cant stand still in a basic stance and expect to create dynamic force using momentum of the body in motion.Or learn to recover errors of the same or take advantage of others errors unless...you move around, like fighters do outside their living rooms.

SLT, second and third parts, create hip rotation, if ever so slightly, when done correctly. This is due to your center of gravity "attached" to the floor developed in the first part. The hand movements come from the ground, not vice versa. Chum kiu is an extension of this movement exaggerated. Going "straight" into an opponent with this "structure" instead of angling creates a 'ball in the water' dynamic. The ball spins when you try to push it under water unless you're directly center on it. The only way to counter a good WC fighter that comes "straight" into you is to connect to their center of gravity. This is the point of SLT. The "little idea", that is the foundation of everything else. All you're doing when angling is reverse chasing. You're 'chasing' the body in response to the arms. That's still chasing. Using Chum kiu instead as a response system, like the ball in the water, will completely change the result. WC is incredibly simple in concept, yet extremely difficult to master. But I'd rather pursue the actual 'truth' of the system and struggle for years in "fights" as I try to perfect it, than take a shortcut and convulute it for the short term of impressing my friends.

[Ozzy Dave]

The above is a very general view. Which get people into seem understand but confuse state. As in pseudo zen talking of everything is zen but none understand the zen teaching.

However, if one Really develop an art , one will know yang taiji is not Chen taiji is not wu taiji, they are different and not the same, baji and Xing yi is not the same, ...etc

Siu Lin tau practice of WCK is very specific . It doesnt do those taiji rotate hip...ect, it doesnt do the forward stance. Siu lin tau capture the centerline at every move, taiji set don't do that way, baji, xingyi don't do that way, yi chuan doesn't do that way.

No, my statement is quite specific - I'm merely saying that the gung fa of any martial art or stream within a martial art family will support its strategy for application.

To use your Tai Ji analogy - Chen is of course different from Yang, Wu, etc as it focuses on na (seizing, joint-locking) more than the others and therefore will have a different "body of the art".

Form after all should follow function.

Where martial arts will be similar is where their strategies intersect, much like the concurrent evolution of the axe or wheel in different human populations around the world.

Dave

[Hendrik]

No, my statement is quite specific - I'm merely saying that the gung fa of any martial art or stream within a martial art family will support its strategy for application.

To use your Tai Ji analogy - Chen is of course different from Yang, Wu, etc as it focuses on na (seizing, joint-locking) more than the others and therefore will have a different "body of the art".

Form after all should follow function.

Where martial arts will be similar is where their strategies intersect, much like the concurrent evolution of the axe or wheel in different human populations around the world.

Dave

Great!



Imho,
Chen, Yang , Wu way of handling jin also different due to different type of engine development .

WCK core in using center guarding center or center line capture momentum, due to this unique type of core, it has both a different body of the art and different application strategy compare with all the taiji lineage's. Thus, the way of using Jin is not the same.

[imperialtaichi]

Since you claim to be a wcner, Are you open minded enough to practice siu Lin tau set and let the set speak for itself?

If not, what are you practice? Wing Chum or something else?

Sorry Hendrik, I wasn't talking to you. I was responding to Kev's thread. Did I accidentally offend you by making sense?

Thank you for paying attention to my posts.

[k gledhill]

SLT, second and third parts, create hip rotation, if ever so slightly, when done correctly. This is due to your center of gravity "attached" to the floor developed in the first part. The hand movements come from the ground, not vice versa. Chum kiu is an extension of this movement exaggerated. Going "straight" into an opponent with this "structure" instead of angling creates a 'ball in the water' dynamic. The ball spins when you try to push it under water unless you're directly center on it. The only way to counter a good WC fighter that comes "straight" into you is to connect to their center of gravity. This is the point of SLT. The "little idea", that is the foundation of everything else. All you're doing when angling is reverse chasing. You're 'chasing' the body in response to the arms. That's still chasing. Using Chum kiu instead as a response system, like the ball in the water, will completely change the result. WC is incredibly simple in concept, yet extremely difficult to master. But I'd rather pursue the actual 'truth' of the system and struggle for years in "fights" as I try to perfect it, than take a shortcut and convulute it for the short term of impressing my friends.

Bollocks....

[WC1277]

Bollocks....

You felt the concept in action years ago being escorted outside. I don't know why you can't believe this or think it's more complex than this in application.

[imperialtaichi]

In my opinion, both Kev and WC1277 are correct.

At the end of the day, different methods suit different people. As long as it works, it's good Wing Chun.

TCMA is often like a Chinese feast. Instead of having to eat what when and how much the chef serves in Western cuisine; as Chinese we just pick what we like on the table in any order we like and as much as we like.

[GlennR]

In my opinion, both Kev and WC1277 are correct.

At the end of the day, different methods suit different people. As long as it works, it's good Wing Chun.

TCMA is often like a Chinese feast. Instead of having to eat what when and how much the chef serves in Western cuisine; as Chinese we just pick what we like on the table in any order we like and as much as we like.

Nice analogy John.

Seems some folks just think its their way or the highway

[k gledhill]

You felt the concept in action years ago being escorted outside. I don't know why you can't believe this or think it's more complex than this in application.

Your confusing SLT alone, and slt in motion aka chum kil added to make it function with dynamics, ballistics...lets not get into story telling again.

[k gledhill]

In my opinion, both Kev and WC1277 are correct.

At the end of the day, different methods suit different people. As long as it works, it's good Wing Chun.

TCMA is often like a Chinese feast. Instead of having to eat what when and how much the chef serves in Western cuisine; as Chinese we just pick what we like on the table in any order we like and as much as we like.

Nice analogy John.

Seems some folks just think its their way or the highway

Ving Tsun is a definable skill. Making it into a subjective buffet/smorgasborg approach leaves the uninformed with a mix and match approach. Turning abstract concepts into confused applications. Perpetuating this idea simply allows any guy to pick up a book or video and assume he can make his vt what he wants, as long as he has abstract shapes in pictures to define him or he can con his students.

[imperialtaichi]

Ving Tsun is a definable skill. Making it into a subjective buffet/smorgasborg approach leaves the uninformed with a mix and match approach. Turning abstract concepts into confused applications. Perpetuating this idea simply allows any guy to pick up a book or video and assume he can make his vt what he wants, as long as he has abstract shapes in pictures to define him or he can con his students.

K, at the end of the day, arguing means nothing. Like everything else in life, it's the guy who remains standing that counts.

[k gledhill]

K, at the end of the day, arguing means nothing. Like everything else in life, it's the guy who remains standing that counts.

Yes, exactly, vt can be tested for this to check for arm chasing , off balanced execution in motion, etc...not rocket science we are talking about, slide rules at dawn.

[JPinAZ]

Okaaaay lets move on, Ving tsun is dependent on angling and movement to work. Like the weapons we use, we too need to change positions and counter attack, etc... a basic pole set is static to learn the alignment of the pole before we start to move and angle to attacks and counter, etc....you cant stand still in a basic stance and expect to create dynamic force using momentum of the body in motion.Or learn to recover errors of the same or take advantage of others errors unless...you move around, like fighters do outside their living rooms.

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. If one understands the core principles of centerline and veiws of maximum efficiency, then the main goal for SNT level thinking would be to stand your ground and deal with the attack as it comes (loi lau) without having to step. If you can do this and dont need to use footwork, you dont - ie you only move when you HAVE to. Example, if someone throws a punch but I can redirect it without footowork thru proper understanding of timing, structure, positional advantage and leverage, we only needed to change our OPPONENT's position. This is WC at it's most efficient and this is what SNT teaches us. Of course, not everything works like this in a perfect world, which is why we have CK

Because, if on a bridge has been made, you cannot deal with the energy on the bridge, that is when Chum Kiu gets involved and footwork is necessary.
Of course there are facing and matchig strategies that come into play at CK stage during Bai Jong, and this is where footwork will also come into play during pre-engagement, but in order for me to have any real sense of WC centerline, we must have a point of reference. This is our own position in space, and we can't have that if the first thing we do is start using footwork to engage.

[k gledhill]

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. If one understands the core principles of centerline and veiws of maximum efficiency, then the main goal for SNT level thinking would be to stand your ground and deal with the attack as it comes (loi lau) without having to step. If you can do this and dont need to use footwork, you dont - ie you only move when you HAVE to. Example, if someone throws a punch but I can redirect it without footowork thru proper understanding of timing, structure, positional advantage and leverage, we only needed to change our OPPONENT's position. This is WC at it's most efficient and this is what SNT teaches us. Of course, not everything works like this in a perfect world, which is why we have CK

Because, if on a bridge has been made, you cannot deal with the energy on the bridge, that is when Chum Kiu gets involved and footwork is necessary.
Of course there are facing and matchig strategies that come into play at CK stage during Bai Jong, and this is where footwork will also come into play during pre-engagement, but in order for me to have any real sense of WC centerline, we must have a point of reference. This is our own position in space, and we can't have that if the first thing we do is start using footwork to engage.

No you're confused.