Let's Talk About Sparring!

[Kellen Bassette]

I'm interested in different approaches to continuous, hard, (or reasonably hard) sparring.

Is it better to dedicate one day a week to sparring and go balls to the wall with it...or do it for part of every, or most classes? I'm really not sure which way I prefer...curious as to what you guys think are the best structures; or at least what you prefer.

What do you prefer for safety gear? (Of course this depends on experience, but shin pads, head gear, yeah, nay?)

Is hard contact once a week better, or more medium contact several days a week? How many fresh guys will you put in front of one fighter, (new guy each round)? Do you go until his form gets sloppy, or do you go until his gas is spent and can't defend?

What are good ways to structure sparring sessions and what are bad ways?

To the fighters/coaches...

If you have a fight coming up; (assuming this is amateur and you can't do a full fledged 8 hour a day training camp), how would you alter your approach to sparring?

Point sparrers need not apply.
Just kidding...

[YouKnowWho]

I used to use sparring to warm up in the beginning of the class. I would make students into 2 circles. The person in the inner circle would spar the person in the outer circle. After 2 minutes, the inner circle move to the left. Everybody would havd a new partner. After 30 minutes, the sparring stopped and the regular class started.

The PRO of this are

- Everybody are sparring at the same time (include the instructor), and nobody is watching, students won't get nervous and had to perform well.
- Everybod would have chance to spar. No matter students liked it or not, they were forced to spar.

This CON of this is:

- Since there won't be enough gloves, head gears, and body protections, students had to spar without safe equipments, control would be needed.

A combination of this kind of sparring along with full contact sparring (with gloves, head gear, and body protection) will be good IMO.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Safety equipment and WHY the majority are in class will dictate the degree of contact.
With proper gear you can go hard every class.
I would suggest full contact every week for those that want it.
I tend to prefer sparring at the end of class because it helps to ingrain what was drilled in class and at the end of class people are more tired and it is better for conditioning.

[Frost]

its better to spar medium intensity more often than hard once a week, i tend to see sparring as a training tool, if you are going too hard you will only work on the things you know work and not really improve your game, you need to spend most of your time at an intensity which keeps you honest but which also allows you to try new things without fear of really getting hurt

There is a place for hard full contact sparring but thats a testing ground not a training toll IMO

Now if you are preparing for a fight its different

what ever sparring you do gloves shin guards mouth guard and groin guard just make sense, hard contact sparring head guards should be used but you also need to do some hard sparring without headwear

[Kellen Bassette]

I tend to prefer sparring at the end of class because it helps to ingrain what was drilled in class and at the end of class people are more tired and it is better for conditioning.

I like sparring at the end as well, if for no other reason then not having to train all class with a fresh bruise.

[Kellen Bassette]

its better to spar medium intensity more often than hard once a week, i tend to see sparring as a training tool, if you are going too hard you will only work on the things you know work and not really improve your game, you need to spend most of your time at an intensity which keeps you honest but which also allows you to try new things without fear of really getting hurt

There is a place for hard full contact sparring but thats a testing ground not a training toll IMO

Now if you are preparing for a fight its different

what ever sparring you do gloves shin guards mouth guard and groin guard just make sense, hard contact sparring head guards should be used but you also need to do some hard sparring without headwear

I agree it can't be so intense that you are afraid to try new tactics, that's necessary for improvement. I think it should be intense enough that people are very aware of themselves and trying hard not to get hit. When you get into the light contact realm people will often just eat a strike to give one. This changes when they start getting hit hard.

I personally hate headgear, I don't like the way it cuts down on your peripheral vision. I prefer to spar with relatively hard contact, but tone it down a notch to the head. Enough to rock the head, but not mess your partner up. (Assuming your wearing gloves.)

Of course amateur MT and kickboxing bouts, (in the States) generally require head gear. If you have to fight with it you got to train with it. For MMA it will probably not be beneficial to wear it; for a reasonably experienced student.

I'm mixed on the shin pads. I think they are necessary at least a month before a fight; it's just too risky to bang your shins up too bad and have down time for sparring or bags/pads. I do like the idea of sparring without them, for the real experience and further shin conditioning, but sometimes I wonder if it's worth it; because you will get banged up shins at some point and have to forgo certain aspects of training while they heal.

[MasterKiller]

Sparring at the end of class, after you are exhausted from the class, is better to mentally prepare yourself to fight hard even though your body and muscles are tired, which is EXTREMELY important.

[MasterKiller]

its better to spar medium intensity more often than hard once a week, i tend to see sparring as a training tool, if you are going too hard you will only work on the things you know work and not really improve your game, you need to spend most of your time at an intensity which keeps you honest but which also allows you to try new things without fear of really getting hurt

There is a place for hard full contact sparring but thats a testing ground not a training toll IMO

Now if you are preparing for a fight its different

what ever sparring you do gloves shin guards mouth guard and groin guard just make sense, hard contact sparring head guards should be used but you also need to do some hard sparring without headwear

This. Medium contact two or three times a week is better than hard contact once every 2 or 3 weeks because you or your partners become too injured to be consistent.

If you never plan on competing, hard contact is probably something you should avoid anyway.

[sanjuro_ronin]

How are you guys defining "medium intensity"?
In my day ( pulls out rocking chair and pipe) we had 3 types:
No-contact - for pussies.
Hard contact - hit hard enough to keep it honest but NOT going for the KO.
Full contact - bodies were buried and ninjas dispatched to silence family members.

[Kellen Bassette]

How are you guys defining "medium intensity"?
In my day ( pulls out rocking chair and pipe) we had 3 types:
No-contact - for pussies.
Hard contact - hit hard enough to keep it honest but NOT going for the KO.
Full contact - bodies were buried and ninjas dispatched to silence family members.

Tell me about the great War again grandpa! LOL

I always tell my sparring partners to go hard, but no KO's no broken noses. Then hope for the best.

[pateticorecords]

I'll just mirror our conversation Kenneth


We spar for 2 hours switching partners after every match up, we do 5 minute rounds with 1 minute of rest in between the matches. We tend to start the first couple of match ups focused on striking (punching, kicking, elbows, knees, shoulders, etc), then striking with take-downs and throws, then striking with take-downs into submission grappling. Also the sparring starts at medium speed and power and as it progresses we move into full speed and power.

We spar every Saturday morning, we have about 15 people or so people that participate some of them are High School and College wrestlers, amateur MMA practitioners, and people from other arts that come to cross train with us.

Our regular classes are hand's on and once the initial concept it taught it is put to the test on resistant opponents... my focus is that everything that I teach is applicable in a real life/street scenario. We do a lot 2/3/4/5 vs ones. We also have days were they come in for sparring training in regular clothes, not sweats more jeans, slacks, etc I want them to experience what it is like to fight with their regular everyday work clothes.

The MMA perspective is always combined into our regular curriculum even if the students don't spar, we spar after class several times a month for those who can make it on Saturdays. For every principle taught I show/demonstrate as many possible reactions, what if's, and how would it work against boxing/grappling/mma. Then I also teach how to counter if that same principle move is done to you. I also show them how the same principle can be applied while stand up fighting, from a clinch, and on the ground.

I have been working on building a strong community of local like minded martial artists that get together to cross train in each other's methods. I have also humbled by some of the Masters of other arts taught here that now study under me as well.

Oh, I have been challenged as well and took on the challenges to prove a point.

My main objective to show people that the "flowery stuff" (one of the wrestling coaches once said that to me when I first met him and he changed his mind when we grappled...lol) does work.

Here are some videos of takedowns, trips, thows, grappling, striking, etc from our mma sparring sessions, nothing too fancy just some random clips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7DqFEOEvdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OCziSftrcQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=080htGiBMwI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyJqxLFUDZ0

[Kellen Bassette]

Actually Patetico, that conversation inspired this thread. And the circle continues...

[Frost]

How are you guys defining "medium intensity"?
In my day ( pulls out rocking chair and pipe) we had 3 types:
No-contact - for pussies.
Hard contact - hit hard enough to keep it honest but NOT going for the KO.
Full contact - bodies were buried and ninjas dispatched to silence family members.

It varies our coach has a test, tuck your chin put your hands down and your opponent punches you in the head , he increases the amount of contact from just touching until you reach a level you are comfortable with (which depends on the level of the guy you are training with his expereince etc), thats the level of contact he uses and its up to HIM to ensure he doesnt go above that,

[Lucas]

most people might not feel this way but I think it's important to get your ass kicked in full contact from time to time if you don't plan on competing. If you havnt been knocked out I think you should (not intentionally but by fighting someone way better than you in full contact with ko allowed), then get back up (if its safe to do so) and then keep fighting after you get rocked. imo thats an important part of self defense. You need to get hit hard, get hurt and not stop. now of course you need an understanding 'hey bro after you knock me out and i get back up, dont ko me again'

[Frost]

This. Medium contact two or three times a week is better than hard contact once every 2 or 3 weeks because you or your partners become too injured to be consistent.

If you never plan on competing, hard contact is probably something you should avoid anyway.

This, our coach was preping fighters last night and gave a speech to the normal class, about sparring level of contact and learning v testing: then he said the exact same thing you did, hard contact should only really be done if you are planning to fight, and used sparingly then because injuries always happen when it gets heavy, and not just KOs etc but silly things like brocken bones in feet, in hands, big cuts etc