Let's Talk About Sparring!

[Kellen Bassette]

Also, it’s probably time to step away from the idea that sparring, or indeed anything you do in class is in anyway a realistic "simulation" of a real "fight".
You may be training skills that may or may not be applicable in a "real fight" but you can't simulate real fighting, just drop the idea.

I was going more along the lines of sport fighting, not street fighting. Nothing simulates a street fight except a street fight. I feel sport fighting may be one of the most realistic ways to prepare yourself for a street fight, however. In spite of all the differences between the two...it's probably the most practical way to prepare.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Let not forget that sparring is training, even full contact sparring.
The person you spar with is your best friend because he/she is helping you get better and you are doing the same.
Full contact competition is the next step up, the best testing field there is OUTSIDE the "real world".
In a competition the other guy is there to beat you up, not help you train.
In level of intensity:
Drills -> Hard contact sparring -> Full contact sparring -> Full contact competition

[Kellen Bassette]

The thing I really find most interesting about 100% full contact sparring is that most “matches” end, not when one guy is gassed or when one guy is hurt but one person can’t take the emotional pressure of being in real physical danger any more. Emotionally exhausted for want of a better term.

Maybe not "100%" but yeah a lot of them. Guys will just cover up, "run," stay down on the canvas, look for the ref/teacher to stop it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I was going more along the lines of sport fighting, not street fighting. Nothing simulates a street fight except a street fight. I feel sport fighting may be one of the most realistic ways to prepare yourself for a street fight, however. In spite of all the differences between the two...it's probably the most practical way to prepare.

Nothing brings you as close to the street as competitive full contact fighting.
To a certain degree competitive fighting can actually be more intense and stimulating than a street fight.
What are the chances of facing a trained fighter on the street, one of the same level as in a competition?
Still, it is important to train the "Street qualities" that sparring and competition don't develop:
Awareness, weapons, multiple attackers, environmental factors.

[Kellen Bassette]

Nothing brings you as close to the street as competitive full contact fighting.
To a certain degree competitive fighting can actually be more intense and stimulating than a street fight.
What are the chances of facing a trained fighter on the street, one of the same level as in a competition?
Still, it is important to train the "Street qualities" that sparring and competition don't develop:
Awareness, weapons, multiple attackers, environmental factors.

My sentiments exactly.

[Liokault]

I like a lot of what Liokault said...only take issue with the "full contact" part. To me full contact implies that you are going for the KO. I don't think you should ever intentionally knock your opponent out, but that may be just a difference in definition.

No, full contact to me means you are trying to KO the other person. I have been doing this for over twenty years now and I can count on the fingers of one hand how many KO’s I have seen. If you get the pairing right there are very few problems. Most KO’s I have seen (and I have seen a few incredible KO’s) have been when people have been miss matched.

Yeah I know that experience is important, but I feel like that's a bad training environment for sparring. I know it's not good to have your first experience with that kind of pressure in a fight, but perhaps an in-school or inter school smoker may be a good alternative?

In class, under the supervision of your own teacher, against a partner that you know and trust, in an environment where you are free to stop at any point with no negative connotations is the perfect place to start.

As far as regular, weekly sparring, you really shouldn't be getting injured. It will just set your training back and make it harder to find sparring partners.

You won’t get injured if you are against a person of a similar build/fitness level and ability as yourself. You will find that it is actually quite hard to KO or indeed hit a guy in a way that actually hurts him (or her) when they are are the same size as you, are as good as you and are making you have to worry about being hurt back.

Look at boxing. how many well matched bouts end in a KO? Very very few, and this is an art where they are specifically TRYING to KO the other guy, no take downs, no sweeps, limited clinching to hide in, just 95% head hunting between two very fit, very aggressive people who in no way seek to "further" his opponents martial development. Yet, the vast majority of bouts go to points (certainly the vast majority of clearly well matched bouts).

Is this how you do your sparring? If so how often do you spar?

Yes, this is how I have always sparred for the 24 odd years I have been training. I have been KO’d once in that time during sparing and seen stars enough to think I should stop maybe 6-10 times. I spar as often as I can, but being 40 and now working away from home (in Germany) my training time is limited, and you do need to be very fit to do this.

[Frost]

Nothing brings you as close to the street as competitive full contact fighting.
To a certain degree competitive fighting can actually be more intense and stimulating than a street fight.
What are the chances of facing a trained fighter on the street, one of the same level as in a competition?
Still, it is important to train the "Street qualities" that sparring and competition don't develop:
Awareness, weapons, multiple attackers, environmental factors.

is it really though....people often say its important to train the street aspects and to spar hard to help simulate the street but when was the last time most of us got into a serious (and by serious i mean very serious not just a drunk pushing match) street situation where we felt our lives were at stake?

If you are training full contact sparring on a regular basis, doing full contact weapons and multipule attacker sinaroes and the answer to my question is not in the last year....why exactly are you puting your body through all that??

[sanjuro_ronin]

is it really though....people often say its important to train the street aspects and to spar hard to help simulate the street but when was the last time most of us got into a serious (and by serious i mean very serious not just a drunk pushing match) street situation where we felt our lives were at stake?

If you are training full contact sparring on a regular basis, doing full contact weapons and multipule attacker sinaroes and the answer to my question is not in the last year....why exactly are you puting your body through all that??

Well, some of us had no choice of course BUT, IMO, if one wants to be a complete MA then, yes it is needed.
That said it is up to the individual to decide and weight the pros and cons.
Heck I know that my body is paying for it now of course.
Would I do it again?
YEP, but without the machismo !!
LOL !

[David Jamieson]

Machismo is just another word for latent h0m0sexual tendencies anyway.
No offense to h0m0sexuals.

[pateticorecords]

No they won't.

As long as you’re in a situation where you’re not going to be punched in the head hard enough to really matter then you are not really simulating (or more importantly stimulating) anything.

Also, it’s probably time to step away from the idea that sparring, or indeed anything you do in class is in anyway a realistic "simulation" of a real "fight".
You may be training skills that may or may not be applicable in a "real fight" but you can't simulate real fighting, just drop the idea.

I beg to differ... yes it is not "real" because you control the setting but it is the closest your gong to get to the real deal.

No different than military war simulations... no, we didn't use real ammo but the experience and the pressure helped us cope with the reality of war and combat when we encountered it for real. It it meant to train your mind on how to deal with the situation so you can act without thinking about it. We also did Chemical Warfare training which was also fun (and scary at the same time).

[Frost]

Well, some of us had no choice of course BUT, IMO, if one wants to be a complete MA then, yes it is needed.
That said it is up to the individual to decide and weight the pros and cons.
Heck I know that my body is paying for it now of course.
Would I do it again?
YEP, but without the machismo !!
LOL !

And when i wrote that i was thinking of you lol i know you served and also worked the doors so it was necessary for you, but its a question i remember rodney king asking at a seminar: hands up all those who train for self defence (all hands went up), how keep your hands up if you have been attacked on the street in the last 6 months (all hands went down) last year (1 hand went up)...in that case why are you training for self defense if statistically its so unlikely to happen just train because you find it fun and want to improve your game was his message

Now can your game be improved without full contact sparring thats the question

[pateticorecords]

Nothing brings you as close to the street as competitive full contact fighting.
To a certain degree competitive fighting can actually be more intense and stimulating than a street fight.
What are the chances of facing a trained fighter on the street, one of the same level as in a competition?
Still, it is important to train the "Street qualities" that sparring and competition don't develop:
Awareness, weapons, multiple attackers, environmental factors.

I agree... another thing to do is to simulate beat downs, multiple opponents beating you down and leaving no room for avoiding it... the only option is to fight back.

[MightyB]

I just randomly punch people in the building. Sometimes I hide in the dark parking garage and jump people. It's best to take their wallets so that they can appreciate the maximum effect of the simulation.

[sanjuro_ronin]

And when i wrote that i was thinking of you lol i know you served and also worked the doors so it was necessary for you, but its a question i remember rodney king asking at a seminar: hands up all those who train for self defence (all hands went up), how keep your hands up if you have been attacked on the street in the last 6 months (all hands went down) last year (1 hand went up)...in that case why are you training for self defense if statistically its so unlikely to happen just train because you find it fun and want to improve your game was his message

Now can your game be improved without full contact sparring thats the question

Full contact sparring gives you confidence in the street, you KNOW how your body reacts to the stimuli of getting hit HARD and full contact competition expose you to the stimuli of "unknown attacker" under controlled conditions.
Without them there is no improvement.
Do you need to them forever? no BUT you MUST do them to a good degree to develop your attributes to the best possible degree.
As MA we train for the possibility of combat and as such what, IMO< we require to do is to expose ourselves to the issues present in a street altercation on a regular basis, NOT as regular as sparring of course BUT some type of regualrity and NOT for the physical training because you are already getting that in sparring BUT for the mental factor of " I've been though this, I now what to do, I won't freeze".

Dude, I can't tell you how many times I have seen seasoned MA freeze when the "unexpected" happens.
I recall the first time guy pulled a knife on me, I recall the first time i found myself 1 VS 3 and no back up around.
Scary **** bro.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I just randomly punch people in the building. Sometimes I hide in the dark parking garage and jump people. It's best to take their wallets so that they can appreciate the maximum effect of the simulation.

That was YOU ?!?!?!
You ****er !!