Let's Talk About Sparring!

[Kellen Bassette]

most people might not feel this way but I think it's important to get your ass kicked in full contact from time to time if you don't plan on competing. If you havnt been knocked out I think you should (not intentionally but by fighting someone way better than you in full contact with ko allowed), then get back up (if its safe to do so) and then keep fighting after you get rocked. imo thats an important part of self defense. You need to get hit hard, get hurt and not stop. now of course you need an understanding 'hey bro after you knock me out and i get back up, dont ko me again'

It is worrisome to me that we have martial art schools out there that are probably at least 3 generations of instructors that have never done real sparring, much less fighting.

I think it's a defining moment in most martial artists careers, the first time they really get hit hard in the head. You learn a lot about yourself then.

[MasterKiller]

most people might not feel this way but I think it's important to get your ass kicked in full contact from time to time if you don't plan on competing. If you havnt been knocked out I think you should (not intentionally but by fighting someone way better than you in full contact with ko allowed), then get back up (if its safe to do so) and then keep fighting after you get rocked. imo thats an important part of self defense. You need to get hit hard, get hurt and not stop. now of course you need an understanding 'hey bro after you knock me out and i get back up, dont ko me again'

Sorry, but this is idiotic. Follow the NFL much? If you have a concussion, AKA being KO'd, you should stop immediately AND take a few weeks off. Otherwise, you risk serious, long-term brain damage. Even pro fighters get an automatic 90 day suspension after a KO in the ring.

You want to simulate fighting out of a flash KO? Spin yourself around in a circle until you are wobbly, then fight someone. It's about the same effect, minus making yourself retarded.

[GoldenBrain]

I'm echoing others here but my opinion is that unless you are training for war or a fight you should save the hard sparring for testing. Light to medium contact should suffice to properly condition the body. Hard sparring during testing should be used to take you to your absolute limit and that's after hours of demonstrating what you have learned.

My definition of hard sparring is all out including knockouts but without doing permanent injury if possible. Light contact is pitter patter and medium is everything goes except for KO's.

I say preserve your sparring buddies by not effing them up and better fighters should always fight to the ability of the lesser fighter. I think the psychos who come to class just to put students in the hospital should be weeded out of TMA. That kind of behavior is for war and not for the average kwoon or dojo.

I also think sparring once a week is fine for most students and it should be done at the end of the class as well as rotated throughout the week.

A cup, mouthguard and gloves are the minimum protection needed. Use shin guards, head gear and other stuff if you like or until you are properly conditioned. For light contact you really don't need gloves but I ALWAYS wear a cup and use a mouthguard.

[JamesC]

Sorry, but this is idiotic. Follow the NFL much? If you have a concussion, AKA being KO'd, you should stop immediately AND take a few weeks off. Otherwise, you risk serious, long-term brain damage. Even pro fighters get an automatic 90 day suspension after a KO in the ring.

You want to simulate fighting out of a flash KO? Spin yourself around in a circle until you are wobbly, then fight someone. It's about the same effect, minus making yourself retarded.

This I what we did. Dizzy bats ad then immediately do pad srills

[SteveLau]

IMHO, once a week is better. How hard is it going to be and what protective gear to be worn depends. It should be carried out during the middle of the training session, when students are not tired yet.

If you have a fight coming up, then do more full contact sparring and fitness training.



Yours truly,

Steve Lau
Hong Kong

[Liokault]

Heavy full contact sparring is the only sparring that matters.

What it takes punch a person hard in the head is very different to what it takes to strike a person with light/medium contact.

What it takes to stand in front of a person who is trying to really hit you hard is very different, physically and emotionally, to what it takes to stand in front of a guy who isn’t really trying to hurt you.

Spar hard with a guy who is only used to light sparring shows quite quickly that the skills are only partially transferable.

If people are getting concussed (and I totally agree that any form of concussion requires immediate stoppage and a long time out) then generally the pairing is wrong.

[David Jamieson]

A few observations.

1. sparring isn't in the same spirit as fighting, it's learning in a simulated environment.

2. Yes, it is necessary to every and any martial artist to spar in order to learn their leaks and weaknesses.

3. People who get competitive in sparring need to go back and learn more. ( I personally have no time for this kind of BS, it's ***** stretching for the most part)

4. Never trust a man who hasn't been punched in the face.

[Kellen Bassette]

I like a lot of what Liokault said...only take issue with the "full contact" part. To me full contact implies that you are going for the KO. I don't think you should ever intentionally knock your opponent out, but that may be just a difference in definition.
I agree with what Lucas said, that you need to experience that condition, but I don't think it should be intentional. If you spar hard for long enough, it will probably happen accidentally anyway.
DJ is right about the competitive thing. I have to remind guys when they get frustrated that they feel they're "losing" the matches, it's not competition. Everyone is trying to improve, not beat the other person or make them look bad.
Although if there is any personal beef or grudges, one of my training brothers always says, "everything comes out in sparring."

[Frost]

I like a lot of what Liokault said...only take issue with the "full contact" part. To me full contact implies that you are going for the KO. I don't think you should ever intentionally knock your opponent out, but that may be just a difference in definition.
I agree with what Lucas said, that you need to experience that condition, but I don't think it should be intentional. If you spar hard for long enough, it will probably happen accidentally anyway.
DJ is right about the competitive thing. I have to remind guys when they get frustrated that they feel they're "losing" the matches, it's not competition. Everyone is trying to improve, not beat the other person or make them look bad.
Although if there is any personal beef or grudges, one of my training brothers always says, "everything comes out in sparring."

So hang on its not a competition but you should try to hit the guy as hard as possible without him hitting you (even if you KO him?)

You agree with Lioakult about everything but the full contact part (which IS his main message)

[Kellen Bassette]

So hang on its not a competition but you should try to hit the guy as hard as possible without him hitting you (even if you KO him?)

You agree with Lioakult about everything but the full contact part (which IS his main message)

No...I said in my post you SHOULDN'T KO your partner, but I do believe you need the "real" feel of heavy contact. I tried to point out, that you also need the experience Lucas mentioned, assuming you may fight, but I don't think intentionally knocking out your partner is the way to go.

I guess what I'm getting at is the contact has to be real but with an element of control. Injuries aren't going to beneficial at all, but I think you need to experience real pressure.

I think a lot of confusion comes from different definitions of medium, hard and full contact. One guy's medium and hard may be another's hard and full. By my personal definition, you would never spar "full contact" because that would imply the intent to injure and KO. Hard contact would be heavy strikes, but controlled to prevent injury of your partner. I think a lot of people refer to this as "medium and hard" respectively.

[pateticorecords]

No...I said in my post you SHOULDN'T KO your partner, but I do believe you need the "real" feel of heavy contact. I tried to point out, that you also need the experience Lucas mentioned, assuming you may fight, but I don't think intentionally knocking out your partner is the way to go.

I guess what I'm getting at is the contact has to be real but with an element of control. Injuries aren't going to beneficial at all, but I think you need to experience real pressure.

I think a lot of confusion comes from different definitions of medium, hard and full contact. One guy's medium and hard may be another's hard and full. By my personal definition, you would never spar "full contact" because that would imply the intent to injure and KO. Hard contact would be heavy strikes, but controlled to prevent injury of your partner. I think a lot of people refer to this as "medium and hard" respectively.

I call it hitting hard enough so you can feel the sting...lol
You can hit someone hard enough to simulate a real situation without having to KO them. It is all about control. No different than when you are training someone less skilled than you.
I go harder on my more advanced students but I still restrain myself because I am not looking to harm them, just help them learn

[Kellen Bassette]

I call it hitting hard enough so you can feel the sting...lol
You can hit someone hard enough to simulate a real situation without having to KO them. It is all about control. No different than when you are training someone less skilled than you.
I go harder on my more advanced students but I still restrain myself because I am not looking to harm them, just help them learn

That's more or less what I was getting at. You can hit someone pretty hard in the body...you can hit them in the head hard enough to rock it and stagger them...you can ground and pound with control, you can work against someone trying to cover up in the corner. You can do all of this without any serious injuries, no broken bones, concussions or internal bleeding. All these methods will put your partner under pressure and SIMULATE real fighting, without going to that extant.

If someone is much more experienced, or a pro, then he may not be under pressure by any of these methods, but that's a good thing. He would be qualified to dictate the level of contact he wants for himself.

[Liokault]

I agree with what Lucas said, that you need to experience that condition, but I don't think it should be intentional. If you spar hard for long enough, it will probably happen accidentally anyway.

But an accidental KO misses the point. The point is not to experience being KO’d or even to feel what its like to be punched hard in the head.
The point is to feel the pressure of standing in front of a guy who is trying with all his means to punch KO you, and to understand that the only thing protecting you is your ability.

DJ is right about the competitive thing. I have to remind guys when they get frustrated that they feel they're "losing" the matches, it's not competition. Everyone is trying to improve, not beat the other person or make them look bad.

I think we need to understand what competition in sparring is.
Competition in sparring isn’t a tag and a point, its applying your ability against a person who is trying to stop you. This is a good thing. It’s a competition to be the one who can apply and to be the one to thwart your opponent’s attempts to apply on you. This only really works in an atmosphere of intensity. As soon as it’s cooperative it loses much of its point. So yes, sparring should be competitive, and it’s a good thing.

The thing I really find most interesting about 100% full contact sparring is that most “matches” end, not when one guy is gassed or when one guy is hurt but one person can’t take the emotional pressure of being in real physical danger any more. Emotionally exhausted for want of a better term.

[Liokault]

All these methods will put your partner under pressure and SIMULATE real fighting, without going to that extant.

.

No they won't.

As long as you’re in a situation where you’re not going to be punched in the head hard enough to really matter then you are not really simulating (or more importantly stimulating) anything.

Also, it’s probably time to step away from the idea that sparring, or indeed anything you do in class is in anyway a realistic "simulation" of a real "fight".
You may be training skills that may or may not be applicable in a "real fight" but you can't simulate real fighting, just drop the idea.

[Kellen Bassette]

But an accidental KO misses the point. The point is not to experience being KO’d or even to feel what its like to be punched hard in the head.
The point is to feel the pressure of standing in front of a guy who is trying with all his means to punch KO you, and to understand that the only thing protecting you is your ability.

Yeah I know that experience is important, but I feel like that's a bad training environment for sparring. I know it's not good to have your first experience with that kind of pressure in a fight, but perhaps an in-school or inter school smoker may be a good alternative?

As far as regular, weekly sparring, you really shouldn't be getting injured. It will just set your training back and make it harder to find sparring partners.

I do think you can put someone under sufficient pressure without intent to injure; although your right that it's not exactly the same thing, I just feel like the regular sparring class is a bad place for that.

Is this how you do your sparring? If so how often do you spar?