wing chun and competition

[LaRoux]

So in short if you want to live in the sport world train and execute like they do in the sports world. If you want to add to your self defense skills or want to get into a martial art for various reasons then I would say WC is the way to go.

Or if you want to train for self-defense you could also train using the sports method, but modified for self-defense.

[LaRoux]

Also in the sporting world there is no fear of getting shanked, shot, or security rushing in to stop the ruckus.

Somehow I think most training in the "self-defense" schools don't really worry about this in their training either.

[wingchunIan]

Aaargh..... All the same arguments over and over again but it doesnt add up with what is posted elsewhere . I don't train wing chun for competition but everyone talking about having to change to adapt to the rules of competition take a look at the clips that are posted on here as representative of good wing chun its all punches to the head ( or chest .....lol), other than pure grappling events there aren't many full contact combat sports that have a problem with punches to the head. Posters on here have even described the punch as wing chun's primary weapon. Personally the punch is a tiny part of what I train and teach, and is trained for elbow mechanics more than actual use, it is a small part of any of the forms but if we look at what is available as evidence by way of clips / posts it would appear that for many it is the primary weapon so if it works at all it should also work in the sport environment and all of the arguments about rules etc are moot

[GlennR]

Aaargh..... All the same arguments over and over again but it doesnt add up with what is posted elsewhere . I don't train wing chun for competition but everyone talking about having to change to adapt to the rules of competition take a look at the clips that are posted on here as representative of good wing chun its all punches to the head ( or chest .....lol), other than pure grappling events there aren't many full contact combat sports that have a problem with punches to the head. Posters on here have even described the punch as wing chun's primary weapon. Personally the punch is a tiny part of what I train and teach, and is trained for elbow mechanics more than actual use, it is a small part of any of the forms but if we look at what is available as evidence by way of clips / posts it would appear that for many it is the primary weapon so if it works at all it should also work in the sport environment and all of the arguments about rules etc are moot

Unless you utilize kicking ( which most WC guys do poorly from my experience) your main weapon I'ds th straight punch.
What else is there???

Sure, theres some chops, palm strikes and soon but the straight punch is the primary weapon . Here's nothing wrong with that, it's just how it is.

[LaRoux]

Unless you utilize kicking ( which most WC guys do poorly from my experience) your main weapon I'ds th straight punch.
What else is there???

Sure, theres some chops, palm strikes and soon but the straight punch is the primary weapon . Here's nothing wrong with that, it's just how it is.

If you look at many of the wing chun videos out there, they seem to be mostly made up of chops, palm strikes, backhands and other things much more than punches.

[wingchunIan]

Unless you utilize kicking ( which most WC guys do poorly from my experience) your main weapon I'ds th straight punch.
What else is there???

Sure, theres some chops, palm strikes and soon but the straight punch is the primary weapon . Here's nothing wrong with that, it's just how it is.

I love the kicks and utilise them wherever possible but they too would be allowed in most full contact events.
As for the the punch, if you go through the forms palm strikes etc appear far more often than punches. I have a strongly held belief that what you train is what is available to you in a fight. I train mostly open hand strikes (with follow up control / eye gouges etc) and fak sao's with only a limited number of punches outside of teaching / drilling basic elbow mechanics. I'm not saying there is anything wrong / right with making the punch your primary weapon but for those that do they can't then use the argument of restrictive rules as to why wing chun doesn't appear / fare well in the competition arena.

[GlennR]

I love the kicks and utilise them wherever possible but they too would be allowed in most full contact events.
As for the the punch, if you go through the forms palm strikes etc appear far more often than punches. I have a strongly held belief that what you train is what is available to you in a fight. I train mostly open hand strikes (with follow up control / eye gouges etc) and fak sao's with only a limited number of punches outside of teaching / drilling basic elbow mechanics. I'm not saying there is anything wrong / right with making the punch your primary weapon but for those that do they can't then use the argument of restrictive rules as to why wing chun doesn't appear / fare well in the competition arena.

Yeh, I love the kicks as well and believe that without them your WC will suffer.
You are right about the number of different palm strikes in the forms but the problem with them as far as I'm concerned is that are really only useful once a bridge is made.
They have a very defined kill zone in comparison to say a boxers punch.

So you're limited with them, and once your opponent works that out he keeps at range nullifying them.

So I stand by my argument, to defined kill zone/range for competition and really only effective with a bridge.
To compete you need to cross train

[anerlich]

Is it that Wing Chun has consistently failed in competition or just that there is a lack of it? There is no reason it can't be used in competition without change, as I see it, but it seems the goal of those training WC is not often to compete with it. That's certainly not its main attraction.

There were a few WC punters in the early days of MMA, but most of them got beat, often very quickly and soundly.

Alan's Orr's guys have done well, but I'm sure Alan would agree that WC with no modification and without serious training in grappling and groundfighting is unlikely to prevail.

Some of Rick Spain's students have done OK in cage fights too, including a win over a BJJ black belt by Nick Ariel, but all of them only succeeded after extensive cross training.

Trying to be "a WC guy who wins in MMA" is to go on a fool's errand. If you want to win an MMA fight (or boxing, kickboxing, MT, wrestling, ...) go to a gym that trains people specifically for those competitive sports. Your Sifu who has only every trained and taught WC is the wrong guy for the job.

The main problem with WC goes back to when guys like William Cheung, Kernspecht, etc etc. claimed their art to the baddest and deadliest on the planet, then had all those claims proved to be false in actual contests. Their claims were proved to be at best delusional.

Arguing about rules impeding WC is just rubbish. You need to adapt what you do to the rules, even if it were to bring the ire of the self appointed pundits on internet WC forums.

[LFJ]

I don't see a reason for Wing Chun to need modification to compete in MMA. A good balance of WC & BJJ, with enough skill and luck, one should fare well. That is assuming one doesn't train in the all too common non-sense WC available.

If WC "can work" against multiple attackers, possible weapons, and other obstacles in real life, then why should it not work against one man on a flat surface in an open, large enough space with no weapons or obstacles but a fence. It's just you vs him. Two arms, two legs. He may be a trained fighter, but so are you. Right?

There are still two problems though. 1) It seems most WC practitioners aren't interested in becoming cage fighters. 2) There aren't a lot of really good WC practitioners anyway.

[Graham H]

Trying to be "a WC guy who wins in MMA" is to go on a fool's errand. If you want to win an MMA fight (or boxing, kickboxing, MT, wrestling, ...) go to a gym that trains people specifically for those competitive sports. Your Sifu who has only every trained and taught WC is the wrong guy for the job.

100% agree.

[Graham H]

I don't see a reason for Wing Chun to need modification to compete in MMA. A good balance of WC & BJJ.......

WC with BJJ is modified WC

[LFJ]

BJJ just for ground fighting of course, should you find yourself there, and perhaps for awareness of their standing game. The WC doesn't need modifying with standing tactics from other arts, imo.

[GlennR]

The WC doesn't need modifying with standing tactics from other arts, imo.

What evidence do you base that on?

[LFJ]

Evidence?

I'm not a sporting competitor, but I've used it against practitioners of other styles. I used to share space with boxing coaches and a Thai fighter. I didn't ever need to start throwing Thai round kicks or hook punches to match them. Why would I, unless I'm just not good enough doing my own thing.

[GlennR]

Evidence?

I'm not a sporting competitor, but I've used it against practitioners of other styles. I used to share space with boxing coaches and a Thai fighter. I didn't ever need to start throwing Thai round kicks or hook punches to match them. Why would I, unless I'm just not good enough doing my own thing.

Used it??

You had full contact MMA rule matches with them?